Feb 12, 2016, 8:56 am
Last edit by: beltway
This is the general 2016-2019 thread for weighing the relative merits
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Post-2019 discussion continues in this thread.
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Post-2019 discussion continues in this thread.
What's the main reason people product change (PC)?
The benefits offered by a particular card, might suit you better than the card you are holding. Many people, unable to qualify for a new Chase Sapphire Reserve application, upgraded from the Sapphire Preferred to the Sapphire Reserve, because the benefits of the CSR's cash reimbursements made the annual fee a nominal difference the first year. And vice versa- the onerous $450 yearly fee of the CSR makes an appealing case to downgrade to the Sapphire Preferred, and eventually to the no-fee Sapphire or a Freedom card.
Many people product change to avoid the annual fees on the premium versions of the card. Keeping the card open, via a product change, keeps the account open. This allows you to retain the seasoned account, and the banking relationship that the older card has established with Chase.
Why not just cancel the card and be done with it?
This may be the right choice for you, but others want some of the card benefits without having to reapply. Also, Chase has become very restrictive for new card applicants. For Chase cards, you must wait 24- 48 months since the last time you received a bonus before reapplying. Please see the threads on the individual cards for updated overlay rules.
An additional (and more stringent) overlay is the infamous 5/24 rule, which Chase instituted in May 2016 as a counter-measure against churning, or, as they refer to it, "Serial Starters." The 5/24 rule is that you won't be eligible for most Chase card products if you've opened more than 5 credit cards in 24 months. For more on this and other application-related issues, see the current "Applying for Chase Credit Cards " Master thread.
Finally, canceling certain cards--those earning Chase Ultimate Rewards--may deprive you of the ability to exchange UR for miles/points in air & hotel programs. See Ultimate Rewards transfer partners, times & rules.
Is there any way I can keep a card without paying the annual fee?
See Chase Retention Bonuses: June 2015-Present
Are there any restrictions on product changes?
Product changes are only allowed within the same card "family," and are not permitted between business and personal cards. Also, Chase cites the federal CARD Act to deny product changes on any account less that one year old.
Will a product change count as a new card?
No, you will keep your same card number, "opened on" date, credit line, automatic payment arrangements, etc. A product change does not count against Chase's 5/24 limitations on new cards.
Will I get a signup bonus when I change?
No, product changes do not result in point bonuses. Signup bonuses are reserved for new applicants only. For the complete list of public sign up offers, check the Chase sitemap here: https://creditcards.chase.com/sitemap
Is there a place I can look to compare cards?
Go here: https://creditcards.chase.com/credit...D=177087865887
Click: All cards
Place a checkmark in the Compare box for up to three cards.
Click: Compare cards...and you should see a side-by-side display.
I've figured out what I want to switch to. How do I product change my card?
Call the number on the back of your card.
Product changes for the Ultimate Reward Business and Personal Card Family
The UR family of cards includes the Chase Ink business cards, the Freedom Unlimited, the Freedom Card, and the Chase Sapphire Preferred, Reserve and Sapphire.
The Slate (personal) card is also available to downgrade to. It has no annual fee and does not earn any type of reward points. It offers a low fee (currently 0% for the first 60 days) balance transfers and APR.
Personal Cards
- Freedom: 5X points in rotating quarterly categories up to $1500 spend per quarter. If you max out the $1500 every quarter, it totals 7500 UR per quarter, or 30,000 UR per year.
- Freedom Unlimited: 1.5X for all spending, no bonus categories. $20,000 in spend would net 30,000 UR per year.
- Sapphire Reserve: $450 annual fee, $300 annual travel credit, 3X points for travel and dining. Books travel through the UR portal for 1.5 per dollar. Lounge access and other goodies. See the thread here for details.
- Sapphire Preferred: $95 annual fee, 2X points for travel & dining
- For discussion specific to the Sapphire Preferred Card, see Chase Sapphire Preferred - Keep, Downgrade, or Cancel?
- Sapphire: Not available to new applicants. Available as a product downgrade/change only, must tier down from the Sapphire Reserve to Sapphire Preferred to Sapphire or Freedom cards. No annual fee. Some Customer Service Reps are citing that the original product (i.e., the CSR), must be held for one year before downgrading. Please provide data points in the thread if this happens to you.
Business Cards
- Ink Plus: $95 annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and hotels
- Ink Preferred: 3x on travel, shipping, internet/phone/cable, & some online advertising.
- Ink Cash: No annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and restaurants
If you still have a legacy Ink Classic or Ink Bold business card, neither of which is available for new signups, you can product change to one of the other Ink cards.
Considerations for downgrading/upgrading:
Can I combine my UR points?
Yes, UR can be combined freely across the cardholder's own personal and business accounts.
What about transfering my UR to another person's Chase UR account? To their air/hotel partner account?
With restrictions, UR from a personal card can be transferred to a person living at the same address. Business cards allow transfer to owners of the company listed as authorized users.
However, be warned that there are transfer restrictions. Unauthorized transfers have resulted in shut-downs. Review the Chase T&C for details before planning a transfer. For discussion, see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...-accounts.html.
The Freedom cards, no-fee Ink Cash, and no-fee Sapphire cards do not allow UR transfer to airline/hotel partners. If you are downgrading from a premium UR card and will only have no-fee cards left, it may be prudent to transfer your points to the partner of your choice beforehand.
I know I can use UR to pay for travel directly (as opposed to transfering points into a travel partner program). Do the Chase UR cards differ on this?
Only the Sapphire Reserve books travel on the UR portal for 1.5. So you can stack your card bonus opportunities when your UR points are combined into your CSR account and used for booking travel. If, for instance, you earned 5x on your Ink Plus on your phone bill, and combine those 5x Ink earned points into your CSR's UR account, you'll now get an additional .5 in value when you redeem them on the travel portal.
Product Changes for United Airlines Cards
There are options to downgrade or upgrade UA cards.
- United Mileage Plus Card- no annual fee, 1 UA mile per $2 in spend
- United Mileage Plus Explorer Card- $95 annual fee, 1 mile per dollar earning, additional award inventory on UA, free checked bag, 25% bonus on the shopping portal.
- United Plus Club Card- $450 annual fee, 1.5 miles per $1, many additional premium card benefits
- Business Cards for the Mileage Plus and Club Card give you a choice to upgrade or downgrade between those two.
Southwest Airlines Cards
The difference here is a nominal $30/3000 points per year.
Personal cards
- Plus Card- $69 annual fee, 3000 bonus points upon renewal
- Premiere Card- $99 annual fee, 6000 bonus points upon renewal
Chase Product Change/Card Conversion: Downgrade, Upgrade, Keep or Cancel? (2016-2019)
Oct 15, 2017, 7:51 pm
#572
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: San Diego US and Brisbane AU
Programs: AA EXP/2MM - DL PM - OZ Diamond - Bonvoy LTT - Hyatt Glob - IHG Plat - National EE - Sixt Platinum
Posts: 1,315
AF is coming up on my CSR and I'm debating on whether I should keep it or PC over to a Freedom Unlimited. Any input would be appreciated!
Thoughts on the above? My thought is that I could PC to the Freedom Unlimited, but as I understood it, I can't do points transfers, or take advantage of the 50% UR portal bonus with that card. That's fine for now. But I'm not sure if I can PC back to the CSP or CSR later on when it may be more useful, or when I might need to use my UR points?
Thanks for your input!
- I have a Citi Prestige and use this for almost all of my travel/dining spend. I'll keep this long-term since I have much more TY points than UR points, and as long as the 4th Night Free benefit is around.
- For me, the main benefit of the CSR over the Prestige was the primary rental car insurance as I was doing about 80-100 rentals this year and charged all rentals to my CSR, but now I won't be renting as much. And this may be moot since I don't own a car anyway and AFAIK Prestige car rental insurance becomes primary in that case as well.
- My main priority is retaining my UR points for future use, as I have no immediate need for them. The only other Chase product I have is the IHG card.
- I'm well over 5/24 and got the CSR through an in-branch preapproval. Since then, I've opened Chase checking/savings accounts and the IHG card as well. But this probably means I won't be able to reapply for the CSR for a while.
Thoughts on the above? My thought is that I could PC to the Freedom Unlimited, but as I understood it, I can't do points transfers, or take advantage of the 50% UR portal bonus with that card. That's fine for now. But I'm not sure if I can PC back to the CSP or CSR later on when it may be more useful, or when I might need to use my UR points?
Thanks for your input!
Oct 15, 2017, 9:49 pm
#573
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 578
Does anyone know whether Chase enforces minimum credit lines for product changes? I've been thinking of changing one of my cards to the UA Club card since my credit is spread out enough that I can't pull together the $15k minimum for a new line of credit.
Oct 16, 2017, 7:31 am
#574
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,959
It's true that if you do not have another collectible auto insurance policy, the secondary coverage will pay, BUT you also need to think about liability coverage. CDW only covers damage to the rental car. It does not cover damage to any other property (such as another car) or a person.
Oct 16, 2017, 7:39 pm
#575
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: San Diego US and Brisbane AU
Programs: AA EXP/2MM - DL PM - OZ Diamond - Bonvoy LTT - Hyatt Glob - IHG Plat - National EE - Sixt Platinum
Posts: 1,315
It's true that if you do not have another collectible auto insurance policy, the secondary coverage will pay, BUT you also need to think about liability coverage. CDW only covers damage to the rental car. It does not cover damage to any other property (such as another car) or a person.
Oct 31, 2017, 2:11 pm
#576
Join Date: Jun 2016
Programs: American Airlines, Delta, United, Southwest
Posts: 45
My husband's CSP second anniversary is here. I tried and failed to get an incentive bonus to keep the card. No luck. He also has a CSR which he got in Mar 2017 and we were not planning to renew. I have neither of these cards although I had a CSP which was downgraded in Sep 2016. It's important for my husband to have one of the Sapphire cards to have the rental car insurance benefit.
My plan is:
-Downgrade his CSP to Freedom or Freedom Plus
-Me get CSR in Jan/Feb 2018
-Product change his CSR to a CSP in March
Are there any pitfalls I'm forgetting? I'll be at 4/24 in December. I know to move UR points to the card with the best redemption.
Is there any advantage to keeping the CSP now and downgrading the CSR to a Freedom card in March?
My plan is:
-Downgrade his CSP to Freedom or Freedom Plus
-Me get CSR in Jan/Feb 2018
-Product change his CSR to a CSP in March
Are there any pitfalls I'm forgetting? I'll be at 4/24 in December. I know to move UR points to the card with the best redemption.
Is there any advantage to keeping the CSP now and downgrading the CSR to a Freedom card in March?
Oct 31, 2017, 3:48 pm
#577
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Truth or Consequences, NM
Programs: HH Diamond, Marriott Titanium, Hertz President's Circle, UA Silver, Mobile Passport Unobtanium
Posts: 6,196
My husband's CSP second anniversary is here. I tried and failed to get an incentive bonus to keep the card. No luck. He also has a CSR which he got in Mar 2017 and we were not planning to renew. I have neither of these cards although I had a CSP which was downgraded in Sep 2016. It's important for my husband to have one of the Sapphire cards to have the rental car insurance benefit.
My plan is:
-Downgrade his CSP to Freedom or Freedom Plus
-Me get CSR in Jan/Feb 2018
-Product change his CSR to a CSP in March
Are there any pitfalls I'm forgetting? I'll be at 4/24 in December. I know to move UR points to the card with the best redemption.
Is there any advantage to keeping the CSP now and downgrading the CSR to a Freedom card in March?
My plan is:
-Downgrade his CSP to Freedom or Freedom Plus
-Me get CSR in Jan/Feb 2018
-Product change his CSR to a CSP in March
Are there any pitfalls I'm forgetting? I'll be at 4/24 in December. I know to move UR points to the card with the best redemption.
Is there any advantage to keeping the CSP now and downgrading the CSR to a Freedom card in March?
Oct 31, 2017, 8:37 pm
#578
Join Date: Jun 2016
Programs: American Airlines, Delta, United, Southwest
Posts: 45
When did the bonus points post on your CSP? One Sapphire rule says you can't get a Sapphire product until 24 months after the last Sapphire bonus posted. (I presume it was late 2015 based upon the information provided but it's not something you specifically addressed in your description.)
Nov 1, 2017, 1:38 pm
#579
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: UA 1K3M, Marriott(SPG) Lifetime Plat
Posts: 230
Sapphire Reserve and Freedom Cards...
Hi - I have both cards at the moment and my UR points have always been consolidated to the Reserve Card.
In 2017, I have taken advantage of the Global Entry and the $300 travel credit, which basically means I've paid $50 for the card for 2017.
When my card comes up for renewal in December, $450 will get charged. I can easily get the $300 back, but is it worth keeping the Reserve card for $150/year?
I am not interested in Priority Pass nor Luxury Hotels benefits, nor rental car status benefits.
Thoughts appreciated.
In 2017, I have taken advantage of the Global Entry and the $300 travel credit, which basically means I've paid $50 for the card for 2017.
When my card comes up for renewal in December, $450 will get charged. I can easily get the $300 back, but is it worth keeping the Reserve card for $150/year?
I am not interested in Priority Pass nor Luxury Hotels benefits, nor rental car status benefits.
Thoughts appreciated.
Nov 1, 2017, 2:01 pm
#580
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Truth or Consequences, NM
Programs: HH Diamond, Marriott Titanium, Hertz President's Circle, UA Silver, Mobile Passport Unobtanium
Posts: 6,196
What will you do with the CSR if you don't keep it? If you close it, you lose the ability to transfer points to partners and to redeem through the travel portal at 1.5cpp.
If you PC it to the CSP, you will pay $95 annual fee but retain the ability to transfer UR to partners and you can redeem through the travel portal at 1.25cpp.
With the $55 in annual fee difference between the two, others who have done the math claim that you would have to redeem 22,000 UR points through the portal to break even on that $55 difference in annual fee.
If you PC it to the CSP, you will pay $95 annual fee but retain the ability to transfer UR to partners and you can redeem through the travel portal at 1.25cpp.
With the $55 in annual fee difference between the two, others who have done the math claim that you would have to redeem 22,000 UR points through the portal to break even on that $55 difference in annual fee.
Nov 1, 2017, 7:57 pm
#581
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: UA 1K3M, Marriott(SPG) Lifetime Plat
Posts: 230
What will you do with the CSR if you don't keep it? If you close it, you lose the ability to transfer points to partners and to redeem through the travel portal at 1.5cpp.
If you PC it to the CSP, you will pay $95 annual fee but retain the ability to transfer UR to partners and you can redeem through the travel portal at 1.25cpp.
With the $55 in annual fee difference between the two, others who have done the math claim that you would have to redeem 22,000 UR points through the portal to break even on that $55 difference in annual fee.
If you PC it to the CSP, you will pay $95 annual fee but retain the ability to transfer UR to partners and you can redeem through the travel portal at 1.25cpp.
With the $55 in annual fee difference between the two, others who have done the math claim that you would have to redeem 22,000 UR points through the portal to break even on that $55 difference in annual fee.
I called Chase and asked, and was told that I have 29 days after the new annual fee has been posted to decide.
Nov 1, 2017, 8:40 pm
#582
Join Date: May 2012
Location: HNL
Programs: AS MVPG, HA Plat
Posts: 1,268
What will you do with the CSR if you don't keep it? If you close it, you lose the ability to transfer points to partners and to redeem through the travel portal at 1.5cpp.
If you PC it to the CSP, you will pay $95 annual fee but retain the ability to transfer UR to partners and you can redeem through the travel portal at 1.25cpp.
With the $55 in annual fee difference between the two, others who have done the math claim that you would have to redeem 22,000 UR points through the portal to break even on that $55 difference in annual fee.
If you PC it to the CSP, you will pay $95 annual fee but retain the ability to transfer UR to partners and you can redeem through the travel portal at 1.25cpp.
With the $55 in annual fee difference between the two, others who have done the math claim that you would have to redeem 22,000 UR points through the portal to break even on that $55 difference in annual fee.
Personally, I break the analysis into two parts: is it worth having a premium UR card ($95 annual fee) for transferability, etc, and if so, is it worth paying the additional $55 for CSR? A conservative version of that calculation values the UR at 1.25 cents/point (CSP portal rate) and compares to 2% cash back. For my usage, Freedom bonus categories easily justify the first $95, and SR 3x on dining and travel easily justifies the $55 difference over CSP. YMMV depending on your spend pattern, and if it's a closer call than mine, it becomes more important to value the UR based on how you'll actually use them.
Nov 2, 2017, 2:33 am
#583
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 349
My Chase Sapphire Reserve annual fee just hit, Nov. 2017.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I could wait until January 1st, use the travel credit and then downgrade for a prorated amount, correct?
Correct me if I'm wrong but I could wait until January 1st, use the travel credit and then downgrade for a prorated amount, correct?
Nov 2, 2017, 6:08 am
#584
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Truth or Consequences, NM
Programs: HH Diamond, Marriott Titanium, Hertz President's Circle, UA Silver, Mobile Passport Unobtanium
Posts: 6,196
You wouldn't even have to wait until 1 January. Your travel credit should reset at the close of your December statement. Otherwise, yes.
Nov 4, 2017, 2:19 am
#585
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 349
Eg. Opened CSR in Nov 2016. Got $300 travel credit for 2016, 2017... now that I am getting my annual fee again, if I spend $300 in 2018, I can then downgrade and pro-rate?
Of course, a month will have past from Nov 1 to when January 1 comes around...