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Originally Posted by Brugge
(Post 24918280)
Their new acquisition policy is to reject high income, high CR individuals, who need and use various hotel and airline cards for their specific benefits. Instead they are going to approve folks with little credit history, and little past usage of ccs. I do wonder how that policy is going to work out for them? Luckily, though, that's not my problem. :)
We don't know what % of people actually care about bonuses, many just sign up for cards as they need them. To take away customers that 1) don't currently have a product but are looking to get it and 2) have several new credit cards in the past year for 3) mostly Chase-only credit cards (excluding UA, etc) = what % of total revenue (or better yet, profit) for that division? We don't know. But Chase does. They have someone or a team of someones who crunched those very numbers and made the decision to go this way. Same way AMEX did it. Economics make sense. If I ran a cc company or bank, you can bet I would have similar rules and somehow I can guess that it wouldn't sink or hurt me in the long run to have these low profit customers leave. On a related note, I am also upset I will not be able to get an Ink card in a year, or get a CSP in a year.. but I'm happy I will get the UA in a couple months, the UA biz in a year and the Hyatt card a year, pus any new co-branded managed card (if rules don't change).. so all is not lost. |
Originally Posted by Mortgasm
(Post 24914796)
I'll add another data point on Freedom and United cards
(snip) Her answer was 'United is just a card we manage for United Airlines, it's not a Chase product. Chase products have different rules.' |
Originally Posted by taliesin
(Post 24919181)
Whereas it's certainly possible that Chase products have different rules, it's certainly not the case that "United is just a card (they) manage for United Airlines." United is not a bank, and they are not the one taking the credit risk on UA cards. Chase is. So the different rules are not based on potential credit risk. I suspect the issue is the cost of redeeming UR points -- if you have opened a lot of accounts recently, you are likely a churner who redeems in ways that are expensive to Chase (making the bonus more expensive for them), and you're not likely to be a customer who puts a lot of spend on the card and keeps it for years and years to cover the cost of that bonus.
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This thread had me a little scared but I went ahead and applied for the Hyatt Visa and I was approved on recon for $5,000! I did not have to answer anything other than to verify my ID.
Here is my info: FICO 771 17 Hard Inquiries 4 Hard inquiries in the last 6months 5 new accounts in the last year 14 new accounts in the last 2 years 5 chase CCs... So this is another data points that shows that there are not stingy with Hotels credit cards |
Originally Posted by starbuk
(Post 24919213)
Exactly - they feel free doling out UA miles because UA has already agreed to spend these miles as a marketing expense, same as Hyatt setting aside nights. But UR points being handed out costs Chase money, not United or whomever. It is easier to control internal Chase rewards than it is to control the marketing policies of several other Fortune 500 firms. This is likely why AMEX was a pioneer in this as they control every part of a credit card transaction and associated credit risk, unlike the major banks in the US.
So this is not a question of Chase only incurring costs when they are distributing UR points, Chase incurs large costs when they provide consumers with a bonus in the form of UA miles as well. |
Originally Posted by Happy
(Post 24916271)
In an ideal world, things should work the way both you and Brugge pointed out.
Unfortunately in a world where cost trump customer service, and even the sensitive Fraud Prevention / Security Dept has been outsourced to Philippines, all the banks care is to have a computer model that they hope to standardize the approval process in credit card applications to reduce the number of folks only gaming for the sign up / spend bonuses (the BA $50K spend is a good example as you earn 10K on $25K spend up to 2x within 12 months, on top of the initial 50K). Please tell me if there is no such 10Kx2 spend bonus, would Brugge's wife spend her $50K on the BA> And why would she not keep the card once the spend be done? Anyone who insists this is good customer is being dishonest. Please call a spade a spade and stop finding excuses. ;) Now if you are talking about getting a line of credit in the form of personal loan, mortgages, and small business loans, then I 100% agree with you that the banks totally lose out if they only rely on a computer model to analyze applications. However, let's not kid ourselves being valuable customers to the banks by charging X amount of $$$$$ that the banks earn their swipe fee - the sign up and spend bonus often negate those swipe fees from the reward cards. 95% of the folks frequent the credit card forums are gunning for the sign up bonus - no need to sugar-coat this sheer fact that by and large, we are definitely NOT the ordinary customers the banks want to attract. The banks would be lucky to make a few dimes on us, but it is the ordinary customers who keep their cards year after year after year without seeking new sign up bonus the banks want to have. Pure math - 40K CSP at the minimum value of 1 penny is $400. You can earn it with $4K spend - how much swipe fee Chase gets on that $4K? Not to mention the account maintenance cost? And how many of you would continue to charge that CSP or that Freedom to the tune of 50K a year to make up for the initial sign up bonuses and the rewards earned on the spend? The arguments are all good, but being applied at the WRONG business that is Reward Credit Cards with sign up bonuses. The same analysis is perfect fit in other areas of the financial products, just not the topic of this forum!
Originally Posted by HoKo
(Post 24912492)
Obviously, people who churn cards on a regular basis complicate the cost-benefit analysis since the big sign-up bonuses Chase offers cost them a lot of money...but for the purposes of this argument I'm just responding to your point(s) about whether or not closed accounts should carry weight
Originally Posted by Happy
(Post 24910092)
I dont think ANY BANK would award you for spend made on CANCELLED ACCOUNTS. All banks would see are your CURRENT Accounts Activities. Now if you keep the BA card that your wife has put $50K on it, that should carry some weight in your favor. Since you closed it, that is passe, out of the window. You already "told" Chase you did not need it or value that account by way of your cancellation. This is just common sense. Anyone thinks it otherwise has no idea how a business is run because it simply is illogical to put weight on closed accounts when considering new accounts.
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One more data point. Applied for the Marriott personal and business cards two weeks ago, denied for both. This is not unusual--I often have to call reconsideration for approval. What was unusual was that after speaking with 4 different reps from the personal credit reconsideration department, I am getting the same response noted here (too many credit cards in the last 2 years). Every rep looked at my report and could tell me exactly how many cards in the last 12 months and last 24 months. And none of them were willing to move credit to a new card. This is the first time in 4 years that I have not been able to get approval from Chase (I did not have the same problem with business reconsideration--got that one on the first call). I hope this does not spell the end of Chase cards for me. They have so many good ones!
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Originally Posted by italdesign
(Post 24917693)
Except, they have approved certain individuals over the threshold. So the threshold is not a hard rule.
The overwhelming trend is that people are getting 'too many accounts in the past year' on UR cards. |
Originally Posted by HoKo
(Post 24919616)
You misunderstand how these programs work. Frequent flyer programs are massive profit centers for the airlines, they are not cost centers. UA (or hyatt, or any other hotel/airline for that matter) does not give chase miles, they sell those miles to Chase and these mileage sales frequently number in the hundreds of millions or even billions of dollars.
So this is not a question of Chase only incurring costs when they are distributing UR points, Chase incurs large costs when they provide consumers with a bonus in the form of UA miles as well. They need to sign up lots of new accounts, just to keep the co-brand company happy. Hyatt and United want new customers, and also to keep their current customers buying their product. Consumers with co-brand card in their wallet helps with both of those. The obvious thing about having bought millions of miles/points in advance, is they now have a huge stock of miles/points that they need to move. They are worthless being 'warehoused' by Chase. Chase needs to give them out to generate at least the min spnd, and hopefully spend beyond min, maybe even interest and fees from the unwary. So there is pressure from both the co-brand partner, and the up front investment in miles/points, to issue new accounts. There is no such pressure for UR accounts. |
Originally Posted by HoKo
(Post 24919616)
You misunderstand how these programs work. Frequent flyer programs are massive profit centers for the airlines, they are not cost centers. UA (or hyatt, or any other hotel/airline for that matter) does not give chase miles, they sell those miles to Chase and these mileage sales frequently number in the hundreds of millions or even billions of dollars.
Originally Posted by Brugge
(Post 24919892)
So there is pressure from both the co-brand partner, and the up front investment in miles/points, to issue new accounts. There is no such pressure for UR accounts.
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Originally Posted by pikachu92
(Post 24915463)
I was denied myself yesterday [for a CSP or Freedom], 5 new accounts in the last 2 years. I had a friend apply today, auto-approved but he only had 2 new accounts in the past 2 years.
Originally Posted by JaytheBarber
(Post 24917835)
Chalk me up (actually, my wife) as another example of getting declined for a CSP for having opened 5 new cards in the last 24 months. [...] CSR said credit was spotless and it would have been approved in the past but this is a new Chase rule that applies to Chase branded cards and was implemented in the last two weeks. She said it's a computer rejection and cannot be reversed no matter how much I try to escalate it.
Originally Posted by skiwindham
(Post 24917617)
Anyone get the CSP who has opened more than 5 credit cards in the past 2 years? I was denied CSP because I opened 7 cards in the previous 24 months. Two different agents told me the identical story: a CSP will not be given to anyone that's opened more than 5 credit cards accounts in the last 24 months. There's no reconsideration; there's no shifting of credit balances; no appeals. Strange to have this inflexible rule for someone with an 802 FICO; a 6 figure income; and a long and spotless credit history.
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Originally Posted by beltway
(Post 24920782)
Co-branded Chase cards can still be artisanally slow-churned every 24+ months -- for now.
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Nightmare with Chase Biz Ink CC application
I received an invite with UR bonus miles for a chase biz Ink card.
I applied - it was pending - I called the lending dept - I was asked questions and hold - then questions - then hold - it went on - I eventually asked for a sup and it is going to be a call back. I spent 30mins on the phone and still no decision - I was never warned that it will take that much time or longer. She is still not done - talking about a call back. It occurred to me that they are asking questions that they are questions that are otherwise prohibited in the application |
5 apps in 2 years is much worse than my previous worst nightmare - US Bank's (unspoken and inconsistent) 3 apps in 6 months limit. I can, with great difficulty, restrict a family member for 6 months, but no way in hell is 5 apps in 2 years a possibility.
Time to appeal to congress - make surrogate applicant legal? |
Originally Posted by Brugge
(Post 24920999)
Is there evidence for this? As the only non-UR cards I really, really want to get in the near future are the SW cards, as my CP expires at the end of the year. But I'm never going to be a mere 4 apps per 2 years, more likely 4 apps per 3 months. :D
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