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Just got an interesting data point on this thread:
http://www.reddit.com/r/churning/com..._declined_for/ "CSR and supervisors said the same thing. Said that there were different review standards for Slate, Freedom, and Sapphire. Then promptly approved me for a Marriott." |
Just got an interesting data point on this thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/churning/com..._declined_for/ "CSR and supervisors said the same thing. Said that there were different review standards for Slate, Freedom, and Sapphire. Then promptly approved me for a Marriott." |
What does Chase normally send Next Day Air other than credit cards? I just got a UPS MyChoice notice to expect a package from them tomorrow. I nor dh have applied for any cards in almost a month and haven't requested any au cards either.
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Originally Posted by Mountain Trader
(Post 24909104)
My experience today was almost the same as Happy's, except our apps were a few hours earlier and it seems we may have used our existing Chase cards a bit more, as we had heavy Ink usage for hotels and other lodging on a recent trip to NZ and Australia.
Originally Posted by Mountain Trader
(Post 24909104)
As Happy found, our analysts seemed to really want to use existing credit lines rather than add to them. I sensed this on first call, and thought "Who and I to argue?". However, I was surprised since in March I had undertaken to clear dead wood on existing Chase cards and others, closing some accounts with no future value and reducing credit lines with others. I haven't gone back to add it all up, but I bet six months ago we had 20k more in credit lines with Chase, and maybe 40k total with the world than when we applied today. Yet Chase seemed to want to use existing credit. Some speculate that this "policy" may only apply to non-affiliate cards (eg. CSP, Ink, etc.) but I haven't seen convincing data so far.
Both apps approved after moving credit from other cards. So the new policy over apps everywhere over XXX months, if there is one, is not hard wired, at least for UA Explorer cards.
Originally Posted by Mountain Trader
(Post 24909104)
After Chase, went over to get a couple of AS cards before the backlash from recent blogger braggadocio sets in.
Time and again, Bowtie has killed any good things that have been quietly exist. While the good secret of multiple cards on one go was no longer a secret since Feb, it was the Bowtie's blog that got many idiots went for 5x that inevitably generate serious spikes on BofA's system and raised awareness of the management of the loophole. Now we lost the statement credit (it was resurrected once and now died again) and the super friendly Spanish line is shut down. True in an internet world, anything is up for grab but the stupidity and the lacking of any common sense demonstrated by some blog followers that we see everyday are still astonishing. The only possible positive thing that MIGHT come out of this is, it is relatively short duration for those 4x 5x went in, so the stash of miles is not nearly as high as the Free-for-All Citi 100K Exec cards last year. Therefore the devaluation prospect on AS program is less than that of AA. |
Does anyone have any experiences with whether Chase counts authorized user accounts in the "too many new accounts" reason?
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Originally Posted by Happy
(Post 24908661)
I am trying to be detailed so to give a clear picture to the readers when it comes to determine profitability to Chase or such.
Did the UA Explorer 55/5/$50 around noon. As expected, got a deferred screen without reference number as I am at the range of maxing out total exposure with Chase. (it would change in a few months but right now I want to keep all my cards - Freedom, IHG, Marriott, UA Biz, Ink Plus, Ink Cash, total 56.9K line. Unfortunately cannot wait till Jul or Aug given this offer expires today or soon after.) Called recon around 3:30pm. Preempted the rep that I always seemed to need to reallocate line whenever I wanted a good card from Chase. Rep pulled up app via SSN. He agreed reallocation line was needed - whichever way I want - I could either do it by swapping a card out or moving line from another card, but he said it needed to be personal to personal, and preferred taking it from one card. NO MENTIONING OF ANYTHING about new accounts nor the existing UA Biz card. Let him take 5K from a 15K Freedom to open UA for 5K. He said to give him a few minutes to see how it went. Presumably whether it needed further review or not. Fortunately he came back quickly and said everything was done, Freedom is reduced to 10K and UA gets the 5K. I did not see the Freedom line went down even logged out and logged back in so I asked. He said it would be updated and I would see the UA card in 2 days. I took the opportunity to ask the rep, would it be better for me to trim some of my unneeded credit lines so I dont have to go thru the recon process each time applying a Chase card. The Rep said ABSOLUTELY. He told me I can call customer service to lower the CL. (We all know that.) So there, another data point on actively manage one's CL. Just of note, an FTer friend got her UA card instantly approved for a very high CL, after she took my advice to trim out 2 existing cards leaving 3 cards open and lowered the total CL down to below 30K. She has over 12 new accounts in 2014 and 5 or 6 new accounts in 2015. She has since lowered the new UA card CL to 1/2 at activation in preparation for a Marriott or Hyatt couple months down the road. Logged back Chase online 5 min after hang up - UA card already shows up online! Low usage of my Chase cards. Ink Plus is used the most but still only about 12K in 2014 and less than 1K in 2015. UA Biz is used for dining on international trips. Freedom the usual quarterly categories only when possible. (this quarter's restaurant spend is downright miserable given we would never spend 500/month in restaurants, coupled the fact we were out of the country for 40 days, making spend on Freedom less than $50 this quarter so far). IHG saw one single hotel stay in Mar that I had to request the extra bonus because the franchise in Turkey did not bill in Crowne Plaza name. Marriott only has 2 dinings on it in 2015. However, Freedom is 7 years old. IHG is 4 years old. Ink Cash 3 years old. Both UA Biz (close to 2nd anniversary) and Ink Plus (just saw the 1st anniversary fee billed) have gotten statement credits to offset 2nd year AF on first call. Paid the $49 on IHG and it is on its 4th year. Remains to be seen if there is any retention on Marriott, else the card goes out. Have both personal and biz checking accounts both with low balances though. They were opened under 25K CO promotions several years ago with easy to do task to avoid monthly fee so I keep them, despite it also means missing out the sign up bonus on checking account that seems like $200 every year. Also have a saving account opened on a $175 bonus back in Feb. 9 new accounts in 2014, 2 from Chase (Marriott personal and Ink Plus, applied on same day end of May 2014 - Marriott required recon, Ink Plus showed up without me doing anything though Chase took 5K from Freedom to make Ink Plus a 10K card). 2 new accounts in Apr 2015 both are BofA AS cards for a total CL of 20K. Obviously I hardly am a profitable customer to Chase, but a rather average stable customer with some history. But no, they seem to not care if you spend on the cards, just that you keep them open. So the $50K my DW spent on her previous but now closed Brit Air card counts for nothing. But Happy keeping her no fee Freedom open for 7 years and only spending in bonus categories does the trick. :confused: As far as I can tell, they only see what you have spent on open Chase cards, and spend put on now closed cards is invisible to them. They reward folks with lots of Chase cards, but little spend, and deny people who have recently spent a lot with them on recently closed cards. What a lousy business strategy. :( BTW, for those with a Freedom card and not a lot of dining spend, this quarter includes BBB. I've heard that they sell GCs there. ;) |
Originally Posted by Brugge
(Post 24909875)
Argh...So Chase apparently doesn't care if you spend on your cards, only if you keep them open forever. We took Chase's new '2 years after bonus' policy to be an invitation to slow churning, and figured combining that with serious spend on all open cards would make them happy.
But no, they seem to not care if you spend on the cards, just that you keep them open. So the $50K my DW spent on her previous but now closed Brit Air card counts for nothing. But Happy keeping her no fee Freedom open for 7 years and only spending in bonus categories does the trick. :confused: As far as I can tell, they only see what you have spent on open Chase cards, and spend put on now closed cards is invisible to them. They reward folks with lots of Chase cards, but little spend, and deny people who have recently spent a lot with them on recently closed cards. What a lousy business strategy. :( BTW, for those with a Freedom card and not a lot of dining spend, this quarter includes BBB. I've heard that they sell GCs there. ;) |
BTW, for those with a Freedom card and not a lot of dining spend, this quarter includes BBB. I've heard that they sell GCs there. |
Originally Posted by Brugge
(Post 24909875)
Argh...So Chase apparently doesn't care if you spend on your cards, only if you keep them open forever. We took Chase's new '2 years after bonus' policy to be an invitation to slow churning, and figured combining that with serious spend on all open cards would make them happy.
But no, they seem to not care if you spend on the cards, just that you keep them open. So the $50K my DW spent on her previous but now closed Brit Air card counts for nothing. But Happy keeping her no fee Freedom open for 7 years and only spending in bonus categories does the trick. :confused: As far as I can tell, they only see what you have spent on open Chase cards, and spend put on now closed cards is invisible to them. They reward folks with lots of Chase cards, but little spend, and deny people who have recently spent a lot with them on recently closed cards. What a lousy business strategy. :( BTW, for those with a Freedom card and not a lot of dining spend, this quarter includes BBB. I've heard that they sell GCs there. ;) Have you read that AMEX has stopped the practice to put the oldest date on new cards? It finally comes in line with other banks. http://www.doctorofcredit.com/americ...-credit-cards/ Talk about Freedom, I got it when it was first introduced, as a relationship builder with Chase, hence the history. If at all possible I would like to convert it to Slate so I could get a sign up bonus on Freedom that seems to be offered at least twice a year. Alas, no such luck! As for the BBB - nah, I dont acquire pts or miles at such high cost - the existing piles from all programs combined could last for 4+ years of travel in comfort. The last thing I would do is to pay a high cost to add to the "inventory" which inevitably is devalued each and every year. Yes, I consider the 0.007 per UR pt is way too high for my effort. I prefer them to be in the 0.004 or below region. At most I would reluctantly pay 0.005 ONLY when the effort is minimal. Now if it is gas station promotion I would do it as the cost is much lower and the effort involved is much less. These days aside from meeting minimum spend, my focus is on cash rebate cards. They help to pay for the costs of cruises, indie hotels for example and gas for example. I even redeemed hotels with AA miles once when the cash saved equaled to the "value" redeemed for ordinary flights. As a side note, small but regular spend could also work for getting retention offer as my SIL has gotten statement credit on her UA personal card each year for as long as she owns the card which she puts everything on it including her daily lunch at work. Of course, she misses out on the sign up bonus but that is a completely different story. |
Originally Posted by Happy
(Post 24910092)
As a side note, small but regular spend could also work for getting retention offer as my SIL has gotten statement credit on her UA personal card each year for as long as she owns the card which she puts everything on it including her daily lunch at work. Of course, she misses out on the sign up bonus but that is a completely different story. I'm far more nervous about cancelling the card and being denied another. I like my UA card. I've gotten the 10K spend bonus every year I've had it. My Bold is my favorite card and gets used at least 60K a year. So I keep them. Keeping them is the sure bet. Getting new ones... not guaranteed. I have multiple businesses and a very high "natural" spend rate, so I need my 30K credit lines and choices to make the high spending in any given month. I have more cards than many people in our hobby, but I also hang on to more cards than most of my miles and points friends. It just seems like the whole churn thing is getting harder. |
Hi all! I'm a first time poster and could use some advice. I've been hoping to get the Freedom for awhile now mostly for the bonus categories. I have been just waiting for larger sign up bonus, but didn't expect it until later in the year. I'd like to take advantage of the new 20,000 referral signup (using my husband's link), but I'm a little nervous. I was approved for CSP last Nov and just got Hyatt & BritA on the same day this past March. The BA was instantly approved with a low credit limit ($2000) and I had to call in for the Hyatt. The recon call was my first and it was tough - rep started by saying I had been denied (less than 1 hour from app) due to too many new accounts. (not sure if this was too many new accounts with Chase or altogether? - I'd opened 5 new cc accounts in the past 2 years before this Hyatt card including the CSP & newly opened BA) I explained why I wanted the Hyatt in addition to the BA and the rep pointed out that I'd only had the CSP for a few months and I'd just been approved for the BA and they'd like to see how I do with these before approving any more cards. I persisted and pointed out my history with Chase and lack of delinquencies etc. He finally suggested the possibility of closing my 12 year old Chase Slate to approve the Hyatt. (This isn't my oldest cc account but not one I was excited about closing due to the age) Then he asked me more financial questions, put me on hold and then came back and said he'd approved the Hyatt card $5K limit with no change to the Slate!
So all that was fine, but now I'm kinda scared of pushing another Chase card! I SM'd yesterday and reduced my CL on the Slate from $20K to $5. This takes my total CL down to 26K (across 4 cards). My credit score fluctuates in the low 800s. I've applied for/been approved for one barclay cc since March. I'd really like to get the freedom now but I'm leary of having to go recon again partially b/c although I don't use it much, I'd like to keep the Slate (in hopes of possibly converting it to a second Freedom later) and I'm afraid that would possibly be the option pushed. Any opinions/suggestions are most welcome!! |
Originally Posted by Happy
(Post 24910092)
I dont think ANY BANK would award you for spend made on CANCELLED ACCOUNTS. All banks would see are your CURRENT Accounts Activities. Now if you keep the BA card that your wife has put $50K on it, that should carry some weight in your favor. Since you closed it, that is passe, out of the window. You already "told" Chase you did not need it or value that account by way of your cancellation. This is just common sense. Anyone thinks it otherwise has no idea how a business is run because it simply is illogical to put weight on closed accounts when considering new accounts.
From a business perspective you are completely wrong. In summary Brugge's point was that in this scenario Chase is evaluating two distinct types of customers: Customer 1: Spent $50,000 on a chase card but recently closed that account for whatever reason (perhaps travel patterns changed and they are no longer flying BA but will be flying UA, or used to stay exclusively with Marriots but now will be staying exclusively with Hyatt). Customer 2: Has had zero AF chase Freedom card for an extended period of time but puts a minimal amount of spend on that card and most of the spend falls into bonus categories. As you may know Chase loses money on 5% bonus categories - this is what is known in business as a loss leader - they are counting on the fact that they will recoup their losses (and make some profit) from people putting non-bonused spend on their Freedom cards. Would you really argue from a business perspective that you think customer 2 is more valuable than customer 1? In 9 out of 10 scenarios customer 1 is going to be a much more valuable customer. Obviously, people who churn cards on a regular basis complicate the cost-benefit analysis since the big sign-up bonuses Chase offers cost them a lot of money...but for the purposes of this argument I'm just responding to your point(s) about whether or not closed accounts should carry weight
Originally Posted by Brugge
(Post 24909875)
But no, they seem to not care if you spend on the cards, just that you keep them open. So the $50K my DW spent on her previous but now closed Brit Air card counts for nothing. But Happy keeping her no fee Freedom open for 7 years and only spending in bonus categories does the trick. :confused: As far as I can tell, they only see what you have spent on open Chase cards, and spend put on now closed cards is invisible to them. They reward folks with lots of Chase cards, but little spend, and deny people who have recently spent a lot with them on recently closed cards. What a lousy business strategy. :( |
Originally Posted by HoKo
(Post 24912492)
From an IT perspective you are probably correct - it doesn't surprise me that banks don't have the ability to see spending put on closed accounts and are therefore unable to take that spending into account when evaluating a new application.
From a business perspective you are completely wrong. In summary Brugge's point was that in this scenario Chase is evaluating two distinct types of customers: Customer 1: Spent $50,000 on a chase card but recently closed that account for whatever reason (perhaps travel patterns changed and they are no longer flying BA but will be flying UA, or used to stay exclusively with Marriots but now will be staying exclusively with Hyatt). Customer 2: Has had zero AF chase Freedom card for an extended period of time but puts a minimal amount of spend on that card and most of the spend falls into bonus categories. As you may know Chase loses money on 5% bonus categories - this is what is known in business as a loss leader - they are counting on the fact that they will recoup their losses (and make some profit) from people putting non-bonused spend on their Freedom cards. Would you really argue from a business perspective that you think customer 2 is more valuable than customer 1? In 9 out of 10 scenarios customer 1 is going to be a much more valuable customer. Obviously, people who churn cards on a regular basis complicate the cost-benefit analysis since the big sign-up bonuses Chase offers cost them a lot of money...but for the purposes of this argument I'm just responding to your point(s) about whether or not closed accounts should carry weight I have an unspoken agreement with Barclays, (which I used to have with Chase), that I keep a new card open for at least a year, and 2 years if it's particularly useful for spend ie CSP, Freedom. During the time I have it open, I put significant spend on the card. When the AF comes up, I cancel the card, wait 6 months, and then reapply. Barclays seems quite content with this, and Chase even seemed to be encouraging it with their recent '2 years after a bonus' rule. Then overnight they put up a 'churners need not apply' sign. My unspoken agreement with Citi is quite different. It's that I apply for @12 new cards a year, quickly make the min spnd, lower the CL, and if it has a AF I cancel unless I get a good retention bonus. Since most of my Citi apps the past year and a half have been EXEC cards, I've spent a huge amount of $ with them. Now with the Chase and AMEX anti-churn policies, we'll be spending $6K a year on Freedom bonus categories, and $6K a year on groceries with the AMEX Everyday Preferred card. The other 90% of our spend, natural and MS, will go entirely to Barclays and Citi. Somehow that doesn't impress me as a brilliant business plan for Chase and AMEX, but that's just me. |
Originally Posted by Brugge
(Post 24913111)
^
Now with the Chase and AMEX anti-churn policies, we'll be spending $6K a year on Freedom bonus categories, and $6K a year on groceries with the AMEX Everyday Preferred card. The other 90% of our spend, natural and MS, will go entirely to Barclays and Citi. Somehow that doesn't impress me as a brilliant business plan for Chase and AMEX, but that's just me. |
I applied 2 days ago (6/1) for my second UA card and got the pending decision page. Tried calling recon last night but was told that their systems were down, so I called again just now and got approved by shifting credit line from my Sapphire card. I currently have Ink bold, Sapphire ($35k CL, which was a downgrade from Preferred last year when my AF came due), and a Freedom ($10k CL). I had the UA card for a year from Feb 2013-Feb2014, cancelled when the AF came due and shifted my CL from that to the Sapphire.
Thrilled to get an approval after reading all the datapoints in this thread recently. Can anyone confirm whether the 50k bonus applies to application date, not approval date? Thanks! |
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