Things getting Hot onboard!
May 13, 2006 | 2:54 am
#16
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,699
Thank you for your reply, Globalman. I understand the situation better now, and I believe that part or all of responsibility lies with the SCMP. Did they show you a copy of the article before it was published? On the article it looked liked a direct quote.
May 13, 2006 | 3:46 am
#17
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 2,184
I hope this will be approached maturely and in a balanced manner.
Some FTers had opinions when Mrs. Hira said something about her DRIVER's experience in economy class.
This set me thinking - what about if she had said, my BOSS? my EMPLOYER? my SECRETARY? my ASSISTANT?
The above references also carry class distictions, some of higher rank, some lower. Is there any difference?
Is there a stigma whenever she refers to someone of a different rank/class, even when it is a of a higher class?
Or is there only a stigma and she is in for castigation when she refers to someone in a perceived lower rank/class?
What about if she said my STUDENT? my PATIENT?
What if she had said that her DRIVER in FIRST class had such and such experience?
Some FTers had opinions when Mrs. Hira said something about her DRIVER's experience in economy class.
This set me thinking - what about if she had said, my BOSS? my EMPLOYER? my SECRETARY? my ASSISTANT?
The above references also carry class distictions, some of higher rank, some lower. Is there any difference?
Is there a stigma whenever she refers to someone of a different rank/class, even when it is a of a higher class?
Or is there only a stigma and she is in for castigation when she refers to someone in a perceived lower rank/class?
What about if she said my STUDENT? my PATIENT?
What if she had said that her DRIVER in FIRST class had such and such experience?
May 13, 2006 | 6:04 am
#18
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: CPT
Programs: BA BD SA
Posts: 4,467
Good point, IncyWincy. I once travelled in F from CPT to LHR. Through an odd mishap I had to later contact a fellow passenger and learned that she regularly flew that route in F with her maid in Y. That information had the same startling effect on me as Mrs H's comment has had on some people on this board. But I could never explain my own reaction to myself. After all, I am in the corporate world and the bigwigs get to fly F (I have to do it on awards 
) while their minions fly Y - or J if they're lucky. And nobody gives it a second thought. If Mr Big were to refer to "my colleague in Y" nobody would bat an eyelid. Yet many of us feel uneasy when the reference is to "my driver" or "my maid".
I still can't explain it except perhaps to think that maybe those of us who do not employ full-time personal staff are inherently sqeamish about an employer-employee relationship that is so intimate. The implication is: "you put your poor driver/maid in y while you swan into F you unfeeling upper class snob". But that reaction just doesn't bear logical analysis. Very strange...
) while their minions fly Y - or J if they're lucky. And nobody gives it a second thought. If Mr Big were to refer to "my colleague in Y" nobody would bat an eyelid. Yet many of us feel uneasy when the reference is to "my driver" or "my maid". I still can't explain it except perhaps to think that maybe those of us who do not employ full-time personal staff are inherently sqeamish about an employer-employee relationship that is so intimate. The implication is: "you put your poor driver/maid in y while you swan into F you unfeeling upper class snob". But that reaction just doesn't bear logical analysis. Very strange...
May 13, 2006 | 6:56 pm
#19
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 2,184
Originally Posted by Cheetah_SA
After all, I am in the corporate world and the bigwigs get to fly F (I have to do it on awards ) while their minions fly Y - or J if they're lucky. And nobody gives it a second thought. ... Yet many of us feel uneasy when the reference is to "my driver" or "my maid".
I still can't explain it except perhaps to think that maybe those of us who do not employ full-time personal staff are inherently sqeamish about an employer-employee relationship that is so intimate...
) while their minions fly Y - or J if they're lucky. And nobody gives it a second thought. ... Yet many of us feel uneasy when the reference is to "my driver" or "my maid". I still can't explain it except perhaps to think that maybe those of us who do not employ full-time personal staff are inherently sqeamish about an employer-employee relationship that is so intimate...
In the western world personal domestic staff are not very common, whereas they are very common in Asia.
What is common in the western world are bosses in nice mahogany offices with secretaries in stations lining the corridors. Is that to be frowned upon? To be castigated?
What if the air-con breaks down in buildings such as the Empire State Building or the Pru and Mr. Big says "My secretary/assistant found it even hotter where she was stationed"?
On the plane, are passengers (in all classes F J and Y) expected to cringe and go red with embarrassment when the Flight Attendants sit on their little jump seats? How come flight staff should not avail themselves of empty passengers seats to rest, especially on long hauls, during their rest time? Again, in the name of equality (or whatever), why should passengers not berate themselves for not sharing the same food and beverage with flight staff?
In the western world, hotels are usually the closest when one comes to having domestic staff. As I understand it, most of the better hotels have rules such that staff do not use the same front doors, the same restrooms, do not eat in restaurants etc. Is that acceptable or not?
Conversely, if members of this board stay at a hotel and find the limousine drivers lounging on the lobby sofas in their spare time, would they applaud the management?
Last edited by IncyWincy; May 13, 2006 at 7:26 pm
May 13, 2006 | 8:33 pm
#20
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boston, Jo'burg, HK
Programs: AA EXP, Hyatt Lifetime Diamond, CX Gold, Mrs. Pickles travels for free
Posts: 13,873
I grew up with maids, gardeners, drivers, nannies, etc., and to this day have hired help. We would refer to them either by their name, or collectively as "the girls" or the "the ladies".
It seems Globalman has the right attitude, just got caught in the usual game of telephone with reporters. That's why it is always very important never to be "quoted" directly unless you have a chance to review things.
It seems Globalman has the right attitude, just got caught in the usual game of telephone with reporters. That's why it is always very important never to be "quoted" directly unless you have a chance to review things.
May 14, 2006 | 2:25 am
#21
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Nr. Lugano
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Posts: 1,615
Originally Posted by Pickles
It seems Globalman has the right attitude, just got caught in the usual game of telephone with reporters. That's why it is always very important never to be "quoted" directly unless you have a chance to review things.
May 14, 2006 | 3:25 am
#22
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: SYD BXG
Programs: QF WP/LTG | UA P
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Seems to me that people should never trust the press. How often do people assume something is true because it has been printed? Why let the truth get in the way of a good story.
I reckon that none of the drama on this thread would (might?) have happened if the press had asked the source of the story to verify what was going to be printed.
OT: Interesting conversation on PPRUNE where someone actually volunteered that they are a journo: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=225554
I reckon that none of the drama on this thread would (might?) have happened if the press had asked the source of the story to verify what was going to be printed.
OT: Interesting conversation on PPRUNE where someone actually volunteered that they are a journo: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=225554
May 14, 2006 | 4:55 am
#23
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2000
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Okay..people... let's try to get back on the topic of this thread which is the actual flight itself..and not the reports of people's statements on who said what , and was travelling with whom.
Otherwise this thread might just end here.
Thank you!
Guy Betsy
Cathay Pacific Asiamiles forum moderator
Otherwise this thread might just end here.
Thank you!
Guy Betsy
Cathay Pacific Asiamiles forum moderator
May 15, 2006 | 4:44 am
#24
Join Date: Mar 2006
Programs: CX
Posts: 55
Originally Posted by Globalman
Thank you all for your opinions and understand, which I though was well thought out and reasonably balanced. ^
I don't hold anything against Christep really, after all this is all really loose conversation, and you are bound to get opinions and more opinions! Otherwise there wouldn't be much joy to whole thing. Im sure there are times well agree on things, and there are times we wont!
B-HQC I appreciate your thoughts, here are a few of my thoughts that come to mind when I read through your reply.
Your point that you will run out of oxygen in the car I can see your point, but to deflate your point, imagine your heating is running to run at full blast throughout your 4 hours parked in the sun. Therefore you won't run out of air or heat. For arguments sake, lets just pretend this is a special car whose engine won't overheat from idling for so long.
Also I am certain you are a capable athlete or used to spending time in the Great Outdoors. That is commendable, and I think we should all be more like that! However there were babies, kids, elderly people, Pregnant women, and ill people on board. Some were succumbing to the heat, and I am fairly confident another 2 hours and someone would have fallen very ill.
And I know the point of driver doesn't sound wonderful, but thats how the paper decided to quote us. This is something how the interview went:
Who were u traveling with?
Mrs. (HER NAME), Mr. (MY NAME) & Mr. (NAME OF OUR DRIVER ONLY). Then they asked, who is Mr. (NAME OF OUR DRIVER) to you? and she is like, oh hes our driver. And so the article comes out, the newspaper chose to address him as Driver, what can we do? they had his full name. She even told them, Mr. (NAME OF OUR DRIVER) saw this and that. Even in our house we don't refer to the driver as Driver. Hes been with us for 17 years now, hes like a member of our family. We were not allowed to read the article in advance either.
I use the term DRIVER liberally above not dehumanize the person, but just to make it easy for you to understand who I am writing about. I don't want to mention his real name unnecessarily.
I don't hold anything against Christep really, after all this is all really loose conversation, and you are bound to get opinions and more opinions! Otherwise there wouldn't be much joy to whole thing. Im sure there are times well agree on things, and there are times we wont!
B-HQC I appreciate your thoughts, here are a few of my thoughts that come to mind when I read through your reply.
Your point that you will run out of oxygen in the car I can see your point, but to deflate your point, imagine your heating is running to run at full blast throughout your 4 hours parked in the sun. Therefore you won't run out of air or heat. For arguments sake, lets just pretend this is a special car whose engine won't overheat from idling for so long.
Also I am certain you are a capable athlete or used to spending time in the Great Outdoors. That is commendable, and I think we should all be more like that! However there were babies, kids, elderly people, Pregnant women, and ill people on board. Some were succumbing to the heat, and I am fairly confident another 2 hours and someone would have fallen very ill.
And I know the point of driver doesn't sound wonderful, but thats how the paper decided to quote us. This is something how the interview went:
Who were u traveling with?
Mrs. (HER NAME), Mr. (MY NAME) & Mr. (NAME OF OUR DRIVER ONLY). Then they asked, who is Mr. (NAME OF OUR DRIVER) to you? and she is like, oh hes our driver. And so the article comes out, the newspaper chose to address him as Driver, what can we do? they had his full name. She even told them, Mr. (NAME OF OUR DRIVER) saw this and that. Even in our house we don't refer to the driver as Driver. Hes been with us for 17 years now, hes like a member of our family. We were not allowed to read the article in advance either.
I use the term DRIVER liberally above not dehumanize the person, but just to make it easy for you to understand who I am writing about. I don't want to mention his real name unnecessarily.
May 15, 2006 | 6:01 am
#25
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: LAX-TPE-LAX
Programs: No more status...just doing my best in burning my points/miles.
Posts: 2,021
Would they have turned around quicker if people started complaining that they were feeling ill?
May 15, 2006 | 6:22 am
#26
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,699
I'm thinking about having a driver here in Hong Kong , how much do they cost and do you have to arrange a UK work permit for them whilst they are driving for you in the UK?
Hired driver - 5000-8000 HKD
If you want a more professional private car driver with experience then it'll be at least 10000+ HKD for a starting salary. Add 2000-4000 HKD if they can speak english. Of course this is just a starting point, many people who have had the same driver for 10-20 years pay there drivers upwards of 20000 HKD.
Not too sure about working in the UK but if it's only for a few days/week, you pay him in HK, and you are on a "business trip" it should be fine.
Last edited by Guy Betsy; May 15, 2006 at 10:04 am Reason: Cannot judge based on race
May 15, 2006 | 6:24 am
#27
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,699
Would they have turned around quicker if people started complaining that they were feeling ill?
May 15, 2006 | 10:05 am
#28
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2000
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Okay.
Everything hereon in after the fact of the incident is really IRRELEVANT especially when it has absolutely nothing to do with the flight anymore.
So I'm shutting it.
Thank you
GUY BETSY
Cathay Pacific Asiamiles moderator
Everything hereon in after the fact of the incident is really IRRELEVANT especially when it has absolutely nothing to do with the flight anymore.
So I'm shutting it.
Thank you
GUY BETSY
Cathay Pacific Asiamiles moderator