Cathay Pacific posts worst results since 2008
Mar 15, 2017, 6:57 pm
#46
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But they have Betsy Beer now. Look for it to really drive traffic.
Mar 15, 2017, 7:00 pm
#47
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chongcao
Seats: How much are we talking about?
I can't find the price of a Recaro seat or a row of Recaro seats (happy if you could), but I'll use the price of a coach seat ($10K http://www.drivers-seats.com/drivers-seats/coach-seats/) to start
Well the airline seat as a table, IFE, pockets, armrests and recline so assume it costs twice that so $20K
Asssuming installation, airplane flying to HAECO and back and downtime takes the cost up to $40K
40 rows of Economy, 10-abreast so $16M per plane
70 777s so $1.12B for the whole refit (you should take replacement of ~17 772/773 from that because the hard shells are going to be inoperable very soon)
How much is hedging loss again?
PRASM: CX's USP is its ability to fly O&D to/from HKG with sufficient frequency. I don't think comfort is a USP or else passengers will be flying indirect business.
Seats: How much are we talking about?
I can't find the price of a Recaro seat or a row of Recaro seats (happy if you could), but I'll use the price of a coach seat ($10K http://www.drivers-seats.com/drivers-seats/coach-seats/) to start
Well the airline seat as a table, IFE, pockets, armrests and recline so assume it costs twice that so $20K
Asssuming installation, airplane flying to HAECO and back and downtime takes the cost up to $40K
40 rows of Economy, 10-abreast so $16M per plane
70 777s so $1.12B for the whole refit (you should take replacement of ~17 772/773 from that because the hard shells are going to be inoperable very soon)
How much is hedging loss again?
PRASM: CX's USP is its ability to fly O&D to/from HKG with sufficient frequency. I don't think comfort is a USP or else passengers will be flying indirect business.
Mar 15, 2017, 7:07 pm
#48
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: CX DM
Posts: 1,140
I am with you! 
The issue is that the quality of CX product/service has fallen so much whilst they have kept/raised their price for premium cabin. The equation simply doesn't make any sense anymore. Pax, some of the most loyal like me (joined MPC 20+ years ago and retained as a DM for 11 years), are genuinely fed up with it.
Their website has issues and bugs all the time, their inflight catering is the worst among the premium airlines I had flown on, the OTP is one of the worst in Asia, their (longhaul) seat hardware whilst is still nice though hardly market-leading and don't even get me started on the regional J seat... the list goes on!
And at the same time, other carriers are catching up fast (in particular I am very impressed with BR). They pretty much offer most things superior than CX at a cheaper price. There's no brainer!
I can keep being a DM very comfortably under the revamped MPO however I have shifted 50% of my travels on other carriers already vs. almost 100% on CX/KA metal since last year. I am not sure if the business demand for premium cabin are that much less due to global economic uncertainty as claimed by CX mgmt, but I can say I am actually spending more or less the same in F/J but now flying BR/SQ/JL.
The issue is that the quality of CX product/service has fallen so much whilst they have kept/raised their price for premium cabin. The equation simply doesn't make any sense anymore. Pax, some of the most loyal like me (joined MPC 20+ years ago and retained as a DM for 11 years), are genuinely fed up with it.
Their website has issues and bugs all the time, their inflight catering is the worst among the premium airlines I had flown on, the OTP is one of the worst in Asia, their (longhaul) seat hardware whilst is still nice though hardly market-leading and don't even get me started on the regional J seat... the list goes on!
And at the same time, other carriers are catching up fast (in particular I am very impressed with BR). They pretty much offer most things superior than CX at a cheaper price. There's no brainer!
I can keep being a DM very comfortably under the revamped MPO however I have shifted 50% of my travels on other carriers already vs. almost 100% on CX/KA metal since last year. I am not sure if the business demand for premium cabin are that much less due to global economic uncertainty as claimed by CX mgmt, but I can say I am actually spending more or less the same in F/J but now flying BR/SQ/JL.
And I suspect the MPC changes have actually encouraged profitable passengers to move to other airlines. I actively shopped for J on other OW carriers instead of flying PEY on CX and upgrading after the MPC changes. Having discovered other airlines' J products, I have since shifted half my business travel too.
Mar 15, 2017, 7:08 pm
#49
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I can strongly influence girlfriend's company travels. Guess what? Now they can go to nyc and lax without needing to buy the domestic leg (ok this is down to bad ta i think thru jl/aa, trips to japan no longer need extra trains/dom tickets (jl/nh gets free dom leg). Europe is a bit harder but can get around cx.
and heh- they lost their incentive flying cx cuz they wont get cx sl. With their 25% am fares even when booked on the same month.
and heh- they lost their incentive flying cx cuz they wont get cx sl. With their 25% am fares even when booked on the same month.
Mar 15, 2017, 8:01 pm
#51
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Mar 15, 2017, 9:00 pm
#52
Join Date: Jul 2012
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Mar 15, 2017, 9:03 pm
#53
Join Date: Aug 2012
Programs: AA PLT, SPG Gold
Posts: 2,405
Agreed - I'd say CX's product is overall just as good as QF if not better i.e. compare CX J to QF J - CX J hard product is light years better. Really shocking how far CX has fallen financially!
Mar 15, 2017, 9:19 pm
#54
Join Date: Dec 2008
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Mar 15, 2017, 9:39 pm
#55
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: SFO/HKG
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Does it make sense to continue fuel hedging which comes at a premium anyways and especially when the competitors don't?
Management's pathetic excuses mean they really need a shake up in leadership.
Mar 15, 2017, 9:43 pm
#56
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: SFO/HKG
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The target market between UA & CX are different and the overlap is minimal. UA to HKG is looking to primarily deliver people to HKG & SIN. CX is looking to deliver connecting traffic via HKG. In the back, CX is many times better than UA.
Mar 15, 2017, 9:48 pm
#57
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: LON
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 172
The deal was sealed against CX in Australia when the government (which has QF lobbyists crawling all over them) signed an open skies agreement with China and then QF proceeded to do a JV with MU. Capacity increased by 30% in 6 months and has been ramping up even further since.
CX, stuck with the weekly cap, can only watch on and swap in 77G's and A350's as a response.
Alan Joyce will probably want Ivan to stay in charge for as long as possible and hinted as much in the interview this morning!
Quite sad to see CX in such a predicament. It will take some gutsy leadership to change the financial tide..
CX, stuck with the weekly cap, can only watch on and swap in 77G's and A350's as a response.
Alan Joyce will probably want Ivan to stay in charge for as long as possible and hinted as much in the interview this morning!
Quite sad to see CX in such a predicament. It will take some gutsy leadership to change the financial tide..
Mar 15, 2017, 9:48 pm
#58
Join Date: Jul 2014
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https://www.bloomberg.com/gadfly/art...-s-cost-crisis
This Bloomberg report I just read on CX FY16 result sums up nicely on the grim outlook for CX. It said CX break-even load factor is ~ 124% (just unbelievable!). Guess you're right...they might think they need to increase prices further!
This Bloomberg report I just read on CX FY16 result sums up nicely on the grim outlook for CX. It said CX break-even load factor is ~ 124% (just unbelievable!). Guess you're right...they might think they need to increase prices further!
Their flights ex-HKG are the most expensive compared to competitors.
However, their ticket prices booked from the US are in-line with competitors who don't have a low cost structure either. There is somewhere their business is bleeding and I suspect it's mainland china - not US, EU, or AU/NZ. Probably makes sense to reduce capacity there or stop selling cheap fares to the mainland market.
Mar 15, 2017, 11:23 pm
#59
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If I may comment, but Cathay food is HORRIBLE. I flew the Hong Kong to Vancouver route in December and god almighty, I am not surprised they are losing money. The flights are full, no doubt for this route but in flight service was ökey but other than that, I would not fly them again.
Mar 15, 2017, 11:24 pm
#60
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Alan Joyce talks to much sometimes for his own good and should focus on his own bloody airline and it's own internal/external financial problems.