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Originally Posted by QRC3288
(Post 27000746)
None of CX's flights went out after around 8pm last night. Yet all the other carriers were successfully running departure ops until midnight or later........
I don't know all the thinking that goes into this, and perhaps there are other regulatory / etc considerations as well (legal / insurance situations once T8 goes up?), but it still seems like the abundance of caution was exercised and it didn't materialize neither as bad nor as early as anticipated. I know AA and UA posted travel alerts many hours before AC did and UA seemed to have a pretty generous waiver. @QRC3288 Not that a cyclone or typhoon compares to snowstorms over here in the Great White North, but AC and YYZ had really bad experiences with ice storms and since then, have been overly cautious by cancelling flights well in advance of major storms - even when they don't end up being as bad as predicted. |
i could see a foreign airline not wanting to send their bird into a potential typhoon (AC7), especially since I'm not familiar with how tight AC is with those frames.
But HKG is CX's home airport. For example, CX competitors all flew identical routes to CX departing at similar late-night times last night: late night last night FLEW: HKG-LHR (2x BA flights, plus VS) HKG-CDG (AF) HKG-ZRH (LX) HKG-FRA (LH) HKG-SFO (SQ) etc. Meanwhile late night last night CX CANCELLED: HHG-LHR HKG-CDG HKG-ZRH HKG-FRA HKG-SFO etc. Basically, last night it paid off big-time to be flying a CX competitor than CX on a competing route. |
Originally Posted by QRC3288
(Post 27000844)
Basically, last night it paid off big-time to be flying a CX competitor than CX on a competing route.
CX would probably encounter problems getting crews to the airport. With T8 raised, it would be an issue to ensure reliability of crews arriving on time for briefing/duty at HKIA, not to mention standby crews as well. This seems like the likely reason! Ah, sorry CX! So I suppose the typhoon signal really affects CX. |
Originally Posted by QRC3288
(Post 27000844)
i could see a foreign airline not wanting to send their bird into a potential typhoon (AC7), especially since I'm not familiar with how tight AC is with those frames.....
AC 15/16 are the 777-200LR AC 7/8 are the 777-300ER (but the 450 pax version) And yes, I know HKG is CX's home airport.
Originally Posted by QRC3288
(Post 27000855)
thinking out loud (and talking to myself...)
CX would probably encounter problems getting crews to the airport. With T8 raised, it would be an issue to ensure reliability of crews arriving on time for briefing/duty at HKIA, not to mention standby crews as well. This seems like the likely reason! Ah, sorry CX! So I suppose the typhoon signal really affects CX. And that would/ could explain a major part of the CX decision. Of course, one also assumes the foreign carriers have their crews close to HKIA and ready to go, which may not usually be the case. (were it ever possible to spend even an hour at airline ops, just to see chaos managed or averted) |
My flight from EWR to HKG on August 3rd isn't cancelled as of yet and yet the flight from HKG to EWR on August 2nd has already been cancelled. If there is no plane why wouldn't CX simply cancel the flight?
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Originally Posted by QRC3288
(Post 27000746)
None of CX's flights went out after around 8pm last night. Yet all the other carriers were successfully running departure ops until midnight. Most of the competitor flights to Europe (LX, LH, AF, VS, AY) all went out up until around midnight. I know a lot of those other carriers simply got "lucky" - aka, they had equipment sitting in HKG, and they may as well run it on the return if weather permitted - but still. Weather did permit it waaaay past the T8 signal got raised and CX probably could've operated 70% of the flights they cancelled.
Take SQ2, for example. HKG-SFO. Departed 11:30pm on time last night, took off at 11:55pm, and will arrive on-time in SFO in a few hours. Meanwhile, CX's equivalent flight - CX872 HKG-SFO, scheduled to depart at 12:30am - was cancelled, as is the return CX873. Same with CX880 (11:55pm departure), cancelled same with return. This was the dynamic with virtually every late-night CX flight last night. I don't know all the thinking that goes into this, and perhaps there are other regulatory / etc considerations as well (legal / insurance situations once T8 goes up?), but it still seems like the abundance of caution was exercised and it didn't materialize neither as bad nor as early as anticipated. Cancellations cost airlines a lot of money and a lot of thought goes into it I would surmise. |
Originally Posted by sjmoss23
(Post 27001159)
My flight from EWR to HKG on August 3rd isn't cancelled as of yet and yet the flight from HKG to EWR on August 2nd has already been cancelled. If there is no plane why wouldn't CX simply cancel the flight?
I just noticed CX cancelled 829 YYZ-HKG for Aug 1, yet the return CX 826 HKG-YYZ is still scheduled for Aug 2, so I'll assume there is some shifting around of equipment. |
Originally Posted by 24left
(Post 27001151)
And that would/ could explain a major part of the CX decision. Of course, one also assumes the foreign carriers have their crews close to HKIA and ready to go, which may not usually be the case.
Whereas CX crew, living all over the place and by themselves/with family/etc., they generally will need to get a taxi, bus, subway, etc. to CX City at the airport. Most of the regular transportation options are closed during T8. Taxis totally shut down due to insurance, as do most buses. Some taxis are willing to drive, but the rates are absurd ($100+ USD taxi rides even for short hops, as the taxi drivers effectively turn into black cabs in T8 or worse). Anyway, I get it now! Definitely no way to crew the planes. |
Originally Posted by QRC3288
(Post 27001198)
.....Anyway, I get it now! Definitely no way to crew the planes.
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Originally Posted by sjmoss23
(Post 27001159)
My flight from EWR to HKG on August 3rd isn't cancelled as of yet and yet the flight from HKG to EWR on August 2nd has already been cancelled. If there is no plane why wouldn't CX simply cancel the flight?
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With the benefit of hindsight, perhaps they were too cautious. But then, didn't they have a major meltdown 5-6 years back with a load of planes & crew out of position/timed out etc - leading to rolling issues that went on for a few days.
Taking CX288/289 as an example (& they seem to have done the same with most flight-pairs like that -260/261, 748/749), they proactively cancelled flights leaving HKG the evening/night of 01/02, as well as those arriving on 02. While 288/01 August might have made it to HKG all safe and on time, there would have been the real risk of having a displaced aircraft and crew that's timed out. Likewise 289 that would have left last night, might well have had massive delays leading to crew hour issues. They just left the aircraft and crew at outports for 24hrs more, and should (hopefully) have just a day's backlog of pax to clear, with all operations quickly back to normal since crew & planes would all be good to go, once the weather's all clear. And on the other airlines flying to HKG - having one to max a handful of planes stuck/delayed is probably easy to manage, vs CX looking at a significant percentage of planes/crew 'stuck'. |
Originally Posted by sxc
(Post 27001298)
Probably because the flight departing EWR 2 august was cancelled and the aircraft is sitting on the tarmac.
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SQ1 tried to land about an hour ago at HKG. Had to go around and diverting to TPE. Will be interesting to see how things play out over the next few hours.
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Originally Posted by hydrogen
(Post 27001360)
SQ1 tried to land about an hour ago at HKG. Had to go around and diverting to TPE. Will be interesting to see how things play out over the next few hours.
However, T8 signal is likely to be lifted at 12noon, which means operations will start recovering and getting more normal this afternoon. Ironically, if SQ1 had just diverted earlier and waited at TPE instead of trying a circus stunt to land at HKG during a typhoon, they could've saved themselves and their passengers 2-3 extra hours worth of headache. |
Originally Posted by sjmoss23
(Post 27001350)
No it is scheduled to leave EWR on time at 1:45am on Aug 2nd so it is definitely taking off as it is showing arriving 3 mins late, so it means they plan for it to fly. I am really perplexed by this.
the aircraft that operated 890/31Jul could fly back as 899/02 August (or even 03 Aug..instead of 01 August as it would normally have done) and the one that operated 890/01 August will fly back as 899/03August (unless they turned that around, opting to leave the other aircraft on the ground longer). Basically left one particular aircraft on the ground for an extra 24hrs than normal. (Edit: wrong..actually 2x24 or 1x48 hrs extra in this case, unlike European outports where one aircraft stays on the ground for an extra 24h). |
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