777fans

Hi all, I recently experienced a long delay (more than 10 hours) on a CX flight from Europe to HKG, due to the sickness of the pilot.

When I asked for a compensation from Cathay under EC261, I was advised the sickness of pilot is a force majeure. Is that the case? Even if so, is there anyway I can ask for a sort of compensation as 10 hours is really a long delay and caused me a lot of trouble.

Thank you for your advice.

CHCX

Assuming the crew sickness occurred prior to departure, this is not (yet) a clear case. But there was at least one recent ruling in the UK where crew sickness was not deemed an extraordinary circumstance:

http://www.bottonline.co.uk/press-re...y-compensation

I would write to Cathay again and ask for compensation (EUR 600) with reference to the above ruling.

You may also want to mention that crew sickness prior to departure was not included in a draft list of extraordinary circumstances by the National Enforcement Bodies:

http://ec.europa.eu/transport/themes...ances-list.pdf

Good luck.

bankops

There is a difference between crew illness at the airline's base and crew illness while out station. The first is not force majeur, while the 2nd is.

The judge in the case above is absolutely mad to say that airlines should have relief staff at each destination.

Often1

I thought for a minute that there had been some major precedential ruling to that effect. The fact that some local judge in some local court somewhere has some view of how BA ought to operate will not likely have any precedential impact on any other rational and sane judge anywhere else in the UK, the EU or for that matter the rest of the world.

OP is certainly free to sue CX asserting that the crewmember illness was not extraordinary in that CX could have stationed relief crew at the European departure station against the possibility that one was taken ill, but CX would do well to litigate the issue as it has little to lose.

Does leave one wondering sometimes as to who runs the asylum.

LHR/MEL/Europe FF

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

From my understanding, EU261 is there to protect passengers from events which are in an airline's control, or which are otherwise in the ordinary course of business.

A pilot or crew member becoming sick is probably something I would consider as being in the ordinary course of business... not unexpected or completely unforeseen.

CX potentially has other options, including accommodating passengers on other flights (either their own or other carriers).

If we accept a pilot becoming sick away from their home port is force majeure - does the same apply to maintenance issues away from home base (for example where the airline in question may prefer to source a part from its own inventory rather than pay a third party?)

One pilot sick I think is foreseen. If two pilots became sick, that might be a different story.

AC*SE

In a strict interpretation of force majeure as it is defined in French law (from which the European use is derived), the event must be external, unpredictable and irresistable.

I would certainly agree that it is the first and the third--an aircraft cannot fly without the MEL and a sufficient crew is probably first on the list. However, no amount of legal gymnastics can make illness of a critical worker unpredictable--if it is foreseeable that a crew member might be taken ill, the airline is obliged to prepare for that.

That being said, the next question is whether the airline's preparation is adequate or not. If it is adequate, then the airline might still be able to avoid liability for delay, even if the adequate preparation results in delay that exceeds the times contemplated in EC261.

It's probably worth pursuing, since the nuisance value of litigating the matter might exceed the cost of paying out those passengers who persist in pursuing the claim.

777fans

Thanks guys for your input. This still makes me wondering but I might give up as I assume it will cost me a lot of effort.

BTW, The European port is MXP which unfortunately has very limited alternative flights, so there is no way to transfer but to wait until 2am in the morning.

LHR/MEL/Europe FF

You can go through one of the dedicated companies that handles these claims. IIRC you lose ~33% of your compensation as their fee, but it basically means you have little to do. They handle/pursue it all for you (and no win no fee).

Often1

And they also don't pursue cases they don't believe they can win. They're not fools.