Koby Yu

I have HSBC Premier, so should I use the HSBC premier MasterCard? Or should I apply others?

percysmith

Need some clarification - are you repaying with AUD in AU, or HKD in HK?

Koby Yu

I'll be spending in AUD as I'm located in AUS.

However, I'll be transferring AUD to my HK account to pay off the credit card bill every month.

The earning rate is not that great in Australia. With American Express Platinum Edge in Australia, I'm only getting 3 miles per $AUD in supermarket, 2 miles per $AUD in petrol station and 1 mile per $AUD otherwise. $AUD is about $7 HKD at the moment. Again, not everywhere accepts AE.

percysmith

I'll use HK$7=A$1 for following analysis.

Using my valuation of roughly A$655 per CX ticket excl tax ex-SYD (this is a quote I'm reading off Expedia AU for 1-4/5 SYD-HKG-SYD, an actual itinerary I am redeeming for a mate to come visit HK), 45,000AM to redeem it plus miles forgone from opportunity cost of revenue ticket of 9,200AM, this means each AM is worth A$0.01208. Your mileage may vary but I'm using an actual ex-SYD redemption.

With overseas HSBC HK 6X earn you earn 1AM per A$0.396.
(You can apply for a HSBC HK Premier on the basis of your HSBC AU Premier to enjoy 6X)
Your cash-equivalent earn rate is 1 / 0.396 x 0.01208 = 3.05%

(Edit 11 Mar 12PM): Out of this 3.05% you pay:
- HSBC buy-sell exchange spread of 1.5% (observed today http://hk.ttrate.com/zh_hk/index.php?b=4&c=AUD&s=3&t=1)
- foreign currency conversion fee of 0.95% to HSBC and 1% to Visa http://www.ebanking.hsbc.com.hk/1/PA...svacharges.pdf

I'll just quickly illustrate this with a worked example
(from TTrate) HSBC currently buying A$1 at 6.956
If you spend A$1 today, Visa will charge you 7.069 http://www.visaeurope.com/en/cardhol...nge_rates.aspx + 1.95% = HK$7.207
Loss per A$1 from this double conversion: 0.0348 or 3.48%. Close to the 3.45% I predicted above.

I assume with HSBC HK and AU Premier you pay nil T/T http://www.hsbc.com.au/1/PA_ES_Conte...es-charges.pdf - this may be wrong.

So you're left with negative 0.4%


If you spend in AU with local Amex your earn rate is A$1/AM or 1.208%. You are right in that you can't spend AE everywhere.

But it still beats negative (considering the AUD buy/sell in HK, which is rather wide).

percysmith

I'll do some sensitivity analysis over the valuation. When doing it I realised my analysis last night was flawed cos you don't get A$1 back when you T/T it to HSBC HK, have HSBC convert it to HKD and have Visa convert it back again.

I checked again, the 1-4/5 redemption is A$655+390 tax = $1,045

Other ex-SYD redemptions I've done:

Queen's birthday 2010: A$925+251 tax (highest)
29/8-1/9/13: A$588+350 tax (lowest)

The lowest valuation is worse than the above.
If using highest valuation, your miles = A$0.01713

As a rebate rebate rate, highest: 4.33%

Take 1.5 + 0.95 + 1% off = 0.88%

If you use AUD cards only, say you can spend on AE on half you spending and have to Visa/Debit/EFTPOS the rest, your rebate rate is 0.65%.

Really I'd look into maxing AUD Amex use. I'm out of touch with AUD Visa rebates but can't you Westpac Altitude it?

Koby Yu

Is there any credit card in HK that doesn't attract foreign currency conversion fee but still earns AM?

percysmith

Simply no. The lowest fee is fubon 1.75% (fubon hk$3/mile aud vs HSBC $2.67/mile)

percysmith

You have a 0.5 AM/A$ card in the form of HSBC AU Premier MC anyway https://www.hsbc.com.au/1/2/rewards-...avel/mile-swap (I didn't notice this before)

So max your spending on Platinum Edge and Premier MC the rest. That gets your return to 0.975% assuming a 50/50 split between Edge and MC.

You need a miles valuation of A$0.0226 or better for the HSBC HK method to be worthwhile. At that rate you need to be buying Economy Special (L) fares in order to make miles the more attractive option.

sillysailor

Let's say I buy a air ticket on cathaypacific.com, using my credit card - will that count as online retail spending? What if I bought through an online travel agent, like expedia.com - is it online retail spending?

More specific to HSBC Plat, would flights bought through, say cathaypacific.com, be eligible under the Lifestyle category?

percysmith

When card info is submitted online and charged instantly, it is most likely online.

Is this for CCB eye? This is the only card/promo that distinguishes between online and non-online right now.

Cathaypacific.com ex-HKG is Lifestyle
Cathaypacific.com ex-PRC is Mainland China
Cathaypacific.com anywhere else is Overseas (search for Timothy Lin's post on this)

dannyhk

If you're HSBC Premier, a better option might be to get your account manager in Oz to set up a Premier account for you in the US together with a US HSBC Premier Mastercard. Unlike Hong Kong, there's no foreign currency conversion charge on their US Mastercard. Given the competitive market in the US, I'm guessing the mileage earning rate will be better than what you're getting down under. Don't know if the US card allows you to transfer directly to Asiamiles> but, even if it doesn't, you could always go via BA, etc. to redeem on Cathay).

percysmith

One US Premier point one mile http://www.asiamiles.com/am/en/earn/...0007d21c39RCRD . Not a big improvement on Aus, probably won't justify the aud-usd translation spread.

theworld

Rant alert.

Bloody Citibank and their annual fee.

Actually all freaking credit card providers in HK. Please stop with this tedious BS about "annual fees" or "annual fee waivers".

Just so freaking tedious having to call up every time to "cancel" these "annual fees".

Rant over.

ChuckMango

Which credit cards don't have a foreign currency fee for non HKD expenses while overseas? Thanks

percysmith

No visas/MC/ae. Minimum 1% (public bank visa)

HK issued unionpay cards (except those issued by HSBC and hang Seng) are forex fee-free. U can only use them where accepted, and card must be present (ie no online, phone, fax or mail orders. Cannot be used to take deposit in hotel check in)

Be aware unionpay card rates are slightly higher than visa's before fee