"Phantom passenger " issue

 

Old Feb 20, 00, 10:21 pm
  #1  
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"Phantom passenger " issue

While we cannot directly accuse CP of doing this... we certainly have enough experience or evidence to suggest that they are doing it.

I am still in HKG just back from a week in NRT and returning to YYZ Tuesday. I decided to check fares for upcoming trip to YVR this coming Saturday.

The lowest fare that I usually get is the NGETAWAY fare (leave Sat and return Mon or Tue) which will work out to be $378.78 Cdn. I tried several combinations and there was no way I could get the same fare class all the way. Simple reasoning behind all this: N class is gone in most of the flights. I am even willing to connect through YYC, YEG or YWG to reduce the fare from 2000 to 400, no luck. It's not until I go another month which N class shows up in some flights. Some flights even show up as "insufficient availibility to book". Wow....business must be booming with the healing hands of Milton! Or is it something else?

Only 1 nonstop flight between YYZ - YVR on Sat have N class, none on Monday returning to YYZ whether I go direct or not. I think it is clear enough what CP is doing. What exactly is their real intention behind this? Do they really think we will belive that they are so booked up... if there were, their Jan stats won't show revenue being down 15% or something.

Is it a conincidence whenever there is an AC and CP flight leaving around the same time, lowest fare is gone since they are hoping to squeeze us all in 1 plane?

Is it a coincidence that all this occur after schedule rationalization on Feb 1?

Having to go through this as a customer is really frustrating. A month ago, there was no problem getting a weekend fare of 378.78 between YYZ - YVR booking 3 days ahead. There was not even once which they were sold out in N class (Occasionally on CP 7, but I never book on that flight since that is usually full taking passenger from East to YVR to Asia). Now, the lowest fare(s) is almost always sold out in all flights.

Claiming we will get more choice... maybe we will, but is this the price we have to pay?

I personally last year all year try my best to make all my travel on CP. In fact of all my 100K Q mileslast year, they all came on CP except one AS operated CP codeshare flight. Is this the way we are to be treated by taking away Black stickers for next year, taking away the lowest fare and much much more.....

The bottom line to all this: IS IT FAIR TO US as a customer who are their "lifeline" to stay alive?

Any thoughts/comments?
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Old Feb 21, 00, 9:58 am
  #2  
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My thoughts are that this might be a good opportunity for the Competitions Bureau to do an investigation on impact on the merger. Seems both EMPRESS and KH would be in a position to contact Ottawa, advise them to read these forums, and see what they come back with. Expect that G&M may have Doug McArthur's column on the subject in a week or two, but what do you guys think?
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Old Feb 21, 00, 10:09 am
  #3  
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Is it going to sufficient enough though. We all know that Ottawa is in favour of the merger and Collenette is a fan of Milton.

I basically have given up on the YYZ - YVR trip this coming weekend. Unless I could get a discount fare, the best I am getting now is $2000. Once I get back to YYZ tomorrow night, I will check again for discount fare and if I still can't get it as a result of CP playing games, I will just give up and squeeze all the work for another week.... I think I am fed up about all this.

I don't see a point of contacting the Competition Bureau at this point until we have more support and get some more concrete evidence.

All we can do is SIT, feel FRUSTRATED.
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Old Feb 21, 00, 10:22 am
  #4  
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. . . also the new legislation was just introduced -- it hasn't passed yet so the rules may be unclear.
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Old Feb 21, 00, 12:06 pm
  #5  
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I am taking every CP flight as if it'll be my last right now... They have just ticked me off too much lately with the reservation stuff.

If in fact what we are thinking is true, then it's not working against me. I will NOT buy a full fare because my company simply does not allow it.

My patience is about to reach its max... tomorrow's HKG - YYZ might be my last if they keep up these kind of childish games.
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Old Feb 21, 00, 12:38 pm
  #6  
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Have you tried Travelocity Empress? I just checked and it gave me an OK on CP993 on Sat and 976 on Monday for the 378 NGETAWAY fare. Other flights may be truly full. Even AC has been oversold on many flights I was on in the last month.

I let it find the best itineraries on Travelocity just to see if there were any routings that would work on that fare.
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Old Feb 21, 00, 2:18 pm
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Kudos to BlondeBomber for suggesting travelocity.ca for your search for the elusive NGETAWAY fares. I use it ALL the time for the N searches because travelocity has always been more accurate than itn in my case. As BB mentioned to you, Empress, there are N's left on CP 993 YYZ-YVR this coming weekend and on the way back on Monday Feb 28 you'll have to be creative...YVR-YYZ via YWG in the morning (CP 624 and CP 934) or lunchtime via YYC (CP 1326 and CP 970).

Once you have searched on travelocity.ca for the N's you can return to the CP website to book on-line for the extra 500 CPlus points! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
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Old Feb 21, 00, 3:21 pm
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With regard to flights apparently being full/oversold, here are my observations:

1. We are currently in the off-peak season for airlines, where passengers loads are normally low

2. Domestic capacity has allegedly been cut back (only) 15%

3. Some flights/routes seem to be perpetually full now

If you take points 2 and 3, it implies that during the typical off-peak winter season, prior to the takeover, utilization would have to have been at least 85%. Combined with the usual winter slow down (point 1) it then implies that utilization was well over 85%.

My conclusion is that someone, somewhere, is lying, about something.
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Old Feb 21, 00, 8:52 pm
  #9  
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KH is absolutely right...

Even back in Dec right up to end of Jan, I had no problems choosing whatever flight I wanted for the N fare. Remember, they had already cut back flights and it was peak season back then. There are no reason why flights would suddenly becomes so full in all classes excepy Y and B??
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Old Feb 23, 00, 7:51 am
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Just spend a lot of time putting together YYZ - YVR trip this weekend in order to save $1500. Have to connect through YEG and YYC on the return. All the direct are gone with the exception of 1 which will be too late for me. Having all the direct flights full is just unreal...

This will probably be:

* The last upgraded flight from full fare unless they provide some exception to the new upgrade policy which is ridiculous. Although I haven't gotten upgraded on any of the leg yet, but I think it'll be no problem.

* The last enhanced J class meal before changes March 1.

* The last EP 100% bonus. Since they are changing qualification to 100K next year and with no upgrades unless buying much higher fare, it'll mean the qualification requirement will be 200K since it'll be 0.5 points for me who flies a lot of domestic and occasionally to HKG.

I am planning to write a letter to CP regarding all these changes especially the upgrades. Not that it'll make them revert it.

Any supporter?

Had a 4 hr chat with a senior captain on yesterday's YVR - YYZ flight. We talked everything from planes to the phantom passenger issue. He said Ottawa will be very concern if they find out about it...!
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Old Feb 26, 00, 6:37 pm
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While "Ottawa" might be concerned, I am not sure that there is any practical consequence.

The Competition Bureau no longer has jurisdiction to deal with the merger. Transport Canada theoretically has the ability to step in, but I think they will be gunshy absent compelling evidence of abuse.

AC/CP will ensure that they meet the minima. There will be service everywhere, and there will be discount inventory on every flight--but not as much as there used to be.
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