Complaints about Customs
#346
Join Date: May 2003
Programs: NZ Silver, AC SE100K, Westjet, Marriott, Global Entry
Posts: 6,868
NZ has a simple system. You meet an immigration officer, proceed to Customs/Min of Ag/Fish once you have picked up checked bags. Customs/MAF have beagles sniffing bags in the baggage hall, the officers are very friendly, as are the dogs. Once handing over the Customs card you proceed to xray where your bag is checked. All very friendly and efficient.
#347
Join Date: Mar 2005
Programs: Blah Airlines Executive Beige, DYKWIA Uranium, TX Propane Commission Blue Flame of Valor
Posts: 7,276
NZ has a simple system. You meet an immigration officer, proceed to Customs/Min of Ag/Fish once you have picked up checked bags. Customs/MAF have beagles sniffing bags in the baggage hall, the officers are very friendly, as are the dogs. Once handing over the Customs card you proceed to xray where your bag is checked. All very friendly and efficient.
).You indicate that your luggage does not in fact contain a dead body, and then the customs officer asks you questions and looks at your paperwork. Whereas BS officers can be BS'd very easily and the physical system in Canada presents way too many loopholes (being able to say you will be in Canada for a week and you have nothing to declare even though you have 4 suitcases checked, changing the answer you gave the BSo at PIL when he sends you to IMM, being able to not declare food yet you checked a leaking box with soil coming out of the tears), the Japanese system is able to not only target people, but they goods they bring in as well.
The officers stand attentively waiting for pax which looks sharp, and because there are about 30 tables, there are never lineups. And like with BSOs at PIL back home, you can go 'shopping' for the Japanese equivalent of a white middle aged male BSO, but they seemingly switch the positions of officers after the pax approaches at random.
I also like Nicaragua's "green light means go, red light means haul your as..s in for customs inspection" system. If I were trying to smuggle drugs in there, I would not disguise my anxiety very well.
The worst is India where all bags have to be x-rayed BEFORE delivered. Seems like a good idea if it's done in a nation with a better reputation for transparency. And I'd have to say Canada is the next worse. While similar to the US, the Americans do it better because a CBP PIL officer is an integrated customs/immigration/food inspector who will perform their own secondary inspection of a pax if needed. Therefore, there are more officers at PIL helping legitimate pax, and there are way fewer spite referrals, leading to a greater amount of continuity, therefore increasing the security logic behind their system.
"It is not appropriate for CBSA Immigration Secondary officers to elicit further personal information from a Canadian citizen."
Immigration Secondary is not the Primary Inspection Line, nor Customs Secondary. Questions asked of Canadian citizens at primary/secondary are related to admissibility of goods. I will admit that I have heard some ridiculous questions being asked on occasion by some colleagues and it does make me cringe. At the same time, though, if I had someone returning from a 2-day trip halfway around the world who marked "personal" as his reason for travel, I would likely ask questions to determine how the trip was financed, why he went, etc. Was he sent to pick up two bags of cocaine and given a short holiday as a bonus? It happens quite frequently. The admissibility of the Canadian citizen is not being called into question just because I'm asking him a question that may also be appropriate to ask a visitor.
Immigration Secondary is not the Primary Inspection Line, nor Customs Secondary. Questions asked of Canadian citizens at primary/secondary are related to admissibility of goods. I will admit that I have heard some ridiculous questions being asked on occasion by some colleagues and it does make me cringe. At the same time, though, if I had someone returning from a 2-day trip halfway around the world who marked "personal" as his reason for travel, I would likely ask questions to determine how the trip was financed, why he went, etc. Was he sent to pick up two bags of cocaine and given a short holiday as a bonus? It happens quite frequently. The admissibility of the Canadian citizen is not being called into question just because I'm asking him a question that may also be appropriate to ask a visitor.
If a drug trafficker paid my ticket through cash, my "why gone for two days" question would have been weak, and further questioning would be justified.
Being that I am legit, an exit that long would be legit, and the first question would be legit, so questions pertaining to how I paid my ticket, or any questions about my trip would be illogical. Maybe a "where did sleep?" just to see my response would be good. Although I know you are competent at the progressive PIL inspections, many of your colleagues are not.
Originally Posted by Nitehawk
I'm surprised how many of you have customs problems. I leave the country and return probably on average of once a month. often on business, sometimes for pleasure, sometimes to buy things like cars and boats. i'm young (24), and often travel alone. I've never been to secondary unless importing a vehicle, once they searched it, but they remained polite and never accused me of anything.
What does "roving" mean? Isn't it correct under both the Customs Act and the AML-ATF Act that roving plus subsequently questioning randomly on outbound flights is not allowed without reasonable grounds?
You are not allowed to intercept everyone outbound to ask questions about anything as to possible customs or money laundering infractions can you, without probable cause to do so, or are you saying that Charter violation would be allowed?
Ironically as to this whole arrivals discussion on the whole I find the YYZ arrivals CBSA to be quite polite and there is limited questioning away from the establishment of identity. I have on occasion, refused to answer questions apart from those quoting the same manual and didn't wind up in secondary, I merely pointed out they were inappropriate , asked the purpose of the questions relative to my Charter rights, and advised that my declaration of goods (usually nothing) was accurate.
I agree reasking the $10K question to those obviously in command of English is not necessary but it happens 100% of the time.
You are not allowed to intercept everyone outbound to ask questions about anything as to possible customs or money laundering infractions can you, without probable cause to do so, or are you saying that Charter violation would be allowed?
Ironically as to this whole arrivals discussion on the whole I find the YYZ arrivals CBSA to be quite polite and there is limited questioning away from the establishment of identity. I have on occasion, refused to answer questions apart from those quoting the same manual and didn't wind up in secondary, I merely pointed out they were inappropriate , asked the purpose of the questions relative to my Charter rights, and advised that my declaration of goods (usually nothing) was accurate.
I agree reasking the $10K question to those obviously in command of English is not necessary but it happens 100% of the time.
Sometimes, they will wander around the baggage claim area. That's also stupid. If I were smuggling in drugs and had body language that would be considered suspect, I would hang out in the washroom until bags are dispensed. If a rover had issues with me, he would take my card, mark it, which would clearly indicate that I am going in for secondary. Then I wait 'til he is gone, I get my bags, rip any identifying figures on them, ditch the bags, and go into secondary. It opens way more loopholes than it attempts to close.
However, if you read the customs act, there is a section about how BSOs have authority in areas in which international flights are departing out of. Like it or not, Canada does have authority over exports.
although we have clashed and i painted you as a troll, you seem like one of the more balanced BSOs.
it sucks that you work for such a crappy organization. at least in 10-15 years all the weak chains in the link will be attrition'd.
i attempted (poorly) to refer to the BSO whose job is to physically pour the liquor down a sink drain.
Last edited by cur; Apr 16, 2008 at 11:23 pm
#348




Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: YVR
Programs: Erstwhile Accidental AC E35K
Posts: 3,195
What does "roving" mean? Isn't it correct under both the Customs Act and the AML-ATF Act that roving plus subsequently questioning randomly on outbound flights is not allowed without reasonable grounds?
You are not allowed to intercept everyone outbound to ask questions about anything as to possible customs or money laundering infractions can you, without probable cause to do so, or are you saying that Charter violation would be allowed?
You are not allowed to intercept everyone outbound to ask questions about anything as to possible customs or money laundering infractions can you, without probable cause to do so, or are you saying that Charter violation would be allowed?
What would trigger a search like this? I've never seen it before in Canada or the US, although most other countries I've been to will clear you on the way out. Perhaps we should be thankful for small mercies.
#349
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: YYC - soon to be 東京
Programs: AC Prestige, Marriott Silver, Hyatt Gold, Hertz #1 Gold, Radisson Gold Elite, HHonors
Posts: 1,830
Disagree, I think Japan's system is the best. Walk through the health counter (close during flights from nations where infectious diseases are not a threat), go to IMM, get bags, you present all of your bags to a custom officer, and customs officer shows you the awesome list containing several diagrams of banned things (diagrams include: C-17 aircraft dropping a bomb, pineapples with bloody knives going through them, baby in empty mayonnaise bucket full of formaldehyde, etcetc
).
You indicate that your luggage does not in fact contain a dead body, and then the customs officer asks you questions and looks at your paperwork. Whereas BS officers can be BS'd very easily and the physical system in Canada presents way too many loopholes (being able to say you will be in Canada for a week and you have nothing to declare even though you have 4 suitcases checked, changing the answer you gave the BSo at PIL when he sends you to IMM, being able to not declare food yet you checked a leaking box with soil coming out of the tears), the Japanese system is able to not only target people, but they goods they bring in as well.
The officers stand attentively waiting for pax which looks sharp, and because there are about 30 tables, there are never lineups. And like with BSOs at PIL back home, you can go 'shopping' for the Japanese equivalent of a white middle aged male BSO, but they seemingly switch the positions of officers after the pax approaches at random.
).You indicate that your luggage does not in fact contain a dead body, and then the customs officer asks you questions and looks at your paperwork. Whereas BS officers can be BS'd very easily and the physical system in Canada presents way too many loopholes (being able to say you will be in Canada for a week and you have nothing to declare even though you have 4 suitcases checked, changing the answer you gave the BSo at PIL when he sends you to IMM, being able to not declare food yet you checked a leaking box with soil coming out of the tears), the Japanese system is able to not only target people, but they goods they bring in as well.
The officers stand attentively waiting for pax which looks sharp, and because there are about 30 tables, there are never lineups. And like with BSOs at PIL back home, you can go 'shopping' for the Japanese equivalent of a white middle aged male BSO, but they seemingly switch the positions of officers after the pax approaches at random.
Also give a nod of the head to that fact about all the officers standing attentively at their posts and not joking or slouching at their job, they throughoutly appreciate the work they do because they're paid to do it right the first time.
Sanosuke!
#350
Join Date: Mar 2007
Programs: AEROPLAN
Posts: 820
at the beijing airport at both the arrival customs area and the depature customs area, there are buttons below the kiosk of EACH customs officer that you can push to rate the service you received from that officer (5 choices)
#351




Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: YVR
Programs: Erstwhile Accidental AC E35K
Posts: 3,195
#352
Join Date: Mar 2007
Programs: AEROPLAN
Posts: 820
see the little gray things below each kiosk?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/exploringchina/442648317/
http://www.airlinequality.com/Airpor..._forum/pek.htm
They speak English quite well. Interesting tidbit: at the passport check, each clerk as his/her own ratings module where you can press a button to indicate the level of service you were given.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/exploringchina/442648317/
http://www.airlinequality.com/Airpor..._forum/pek.htm
They speak English quite well. Interesting tidbit: at the passport check, each clerk as his/her own ratings module where you can press a button to indicate the level of service you were given.
Last edited by st7860; Apr 17, 2008 at 4:18 pm
#353
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 881
see the little gray things below each kiosk?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/exploringchina/442648317/
http://www.airlinequality.com/Airpor..._forum/pek.htm
They speak English quite well. Interesting tidbit: at the passport check, each clerk as his/her own ratings module where you can press a button to indicate the level of service you were given.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/exploringchina/442648317/
http://www.airlinequality.com/Airpor..._forum/pek.htm
They speak English quite well. Interesting tidbit: at the passport check, each clerk as his/her own ratings module where you can press a button to indicate the level of service you were given.
I have never been mistreated by border officials in Canada or any other country.
#354
Join Date: Mar 2005
Programs: Blah Airlines Executive Beige, DYKWIA Uranium, TX Propane Commission Blue Flame of Valor
Posts: 7,276
IMM officers in India are nice to my white arse, at least.

.That's nice. Police stations in Singapore have comment cards, too, on which you can rate the level of courtesy you were shown during your visit. Of course, this doesn't stop the Singapore Police from beating suspects routinely.
I have never been mistreated by border officials in Canada or any other country.
I have never been mistreated by border officials in Canada or any other country.
...whereas all a BSofficers will give you is a 5 page survey about your income/purpose of leaving/occupation/how you travel for the interest of statscan.
complaining about a BSofficer to a superintendent that became a manager because he was incompetent at his job as a BSofficer, however, is another thing.
Last edited by cur; Apr 18, 2008 at 6:04 am
#355
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Thanks for the Memories !!!
Posts: 10,737

Last edited by Q Shoe Guy; Apr 18, 2008 at 7:41 am
#356


Join Date: Jan 2001
Programs: AC SEMM
Posts: 770
#357
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: YVR
Programs: AC E75, SPG Plat, HH peon-by-choice (ex Gold)
Posts: 8,090
Originally Posted by st7860
at the beijing airport at both the arrival customs area and the depature customs area, there are buttons below the kiosk of EACH customs officer that you can push to rate the service you received from that officer (5 choices)
One time, they thanked me after I pressed the button. Made me wonder if they saw which one I pressed.
#359
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: YYC - soon to be 東京
Programs: AC Prestige, Marriott Silver, Hyatt Gold, Hertz #1 Gold, Radisson Gold Elite, HHonors
Posts: 1,830
YOWKid, just be careful about that button next time you go to China..
They might think you are flirting with the female officer... 
Sanosuke!
They might think you are flirting with the female officer... 
Sanosuke!


- details please!