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-   -   Complaints about Customs (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/canada/810328-complaints-about-customs.html)

Braindrain Apr 11, 2008 8:01 pm


Originally Posted by cur (Post 9557452)
if your agency and the dopes that work for it want some respect, they have to earn it, troll.

Uncalled for. :td:

fly-yul Apr 11, 2008 8:33 pm


Originally Posted by Joe Airman (Post 9558796)
- I've encountered a situation once or twice (bording a plane to AMS for example) where there are CBS people on the jetway. Does CBS have the legal authority to force Canadian citizens to submit to an interview upon DEPARTURE FROM CANADA ???

Yes. Remember you have to declare if you are leaving with 10,000 in cash to the Canadians.


Originally Posted by Joe Airman (Post 9558796)
Interesting story:

This goes back to the late 1980's. A friend of a friend who had just graduated from university was claiming UI. While on UI, he took a trip to the states (vacation, florida, etc). Naturally he filled out a customs card upon return. Well guess what - UI finds out about the vacation and claws back some UI. How did UI know? The only answer was the customs card.


That's one of the main uses of keeping the cards - to find EI cheats.

Originally Posted by Joe Airman (Post 9558796)
And for those of you Nexus people - sure it's all nice and cozy that you can sail through US customs. But just remember that some US lawyer in Seattle was put through the meat grinder a few years ago because someone found his fingerprints on one of the bags in the Spain train bombing. I don't need my fingerprints in some US database, waiting for a false-positive match to royally screw up my life.

They only scan your 2 index fingers. I always cover them up when committing a crime. Problem solved. And BTW if you leave your retina behind at the scene of a crime you have bigger problems then the FBI.

Sanosuke Apr 11, 2008 9:35 pm


Originally Posted by fly-yul (Post 9559019)
They only scan your 2 index fingers. I always cover them up when committing a crime. Problem solved. And BTW if you leave your retina behind at the scene of a crime you have bigger problems then the FBI.

And what does that have to do with protecting yourself againist self-incrimination? ;) There is always DNA if all fails. :P

Sanosuke!

Simon Apr 11, 2008 9:44 pm


Originally Posted by Phrantic (Post 9558880)
One person calls it rude, the other diligent.
One person calls it inane, the other sensible.

Perhaps, just a theory, they thought you were rude and deliberatly with-holding information. Both of which can be used in court as indicators of a suspcious traveller.

This is not about me. Other than the one indicated case where they started asking highly personaly questions, I have not said anything about withholding information.

So clearly, "the other" would call the ports of entry into the EU/US not diligent and not sensible?

Simon

CBSAguy Apr 11, 2008 9:51 pm


Originally Posted by Simon (Post 9559284)
This is not about me. Other than the one indicated case where they started asking highly personaly questions, I have not said anything about withholding information.

So clearly, "the other" would call the ports of entry into the EU/US not diligent and not sensible?

Simon

If you have a problem with CBSA policy, I suggest writing your MP.

And, yes, I've been to many places in the world I would call far from diligent.

KVS Apr 11, 2008 10:12 pm


Originally Posted by Joe Airman (Post 9558796)
Interesting story:

This goes back to the late 1980's. A friend of a friend who had just graduated from university was claiming UI. While on UI, he took a trip to the states (vacation, florida, etc). Naturally he filled out a customs card upon return. Well guess what - UI finds out about the vacation and claws back some UI. How did UI know? The only answer was the customs card.

Yes, HRSDC obtains this info from the CBSA:

From http://www.infosource.gc.ca/inst/csd/fed07_e.asp
Returning Canadian Resident Program (RCRP) (ISB)

Description: A detection program which compares data from the Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) and EI Claim information.
Class of Individuals: EI claimant
Purpose: To administer the EI Act, to detect claimants who have neglected to report their absence from Canada.
Consistent Uses: Information used for the ICCM, which produces a number of monthly operational and managerial reports beneficial to the operations of the Directorate.
Retention and Disposal Standards: Destroy records 2 years after receipt based on MOU with the Canada Revenue Agency if there is no investigation pending. Records used for investigations are retained for up to 5 years and then destroyed.
RDA Number: TBD
Related PR#: HRSDC ISB 051
TBS Registration: 004165
Bank Number: HRSDC PPU 120

CBSAguy Apr 11, 2008 10:44 pm


Originally Posted by Joe Airman (Post 9558796)
Food question:

- a prohibition on some items (soil, roots, etc) is one thing. Can someone explain the (environmental or agricultural) harm that could possibly be caused by any form of meat product?

General questions:

- I've encountered a situation once or twice (bording a plane to AMS for example) where there are CBS people on the jetway. Does CBS have the legal authority to force Canadian citizens to submit to an interview upon DEPARTURE FROM CANADA ???

Other stuff:

It's one reason why the motivation was so high to tazer that Polish guy in Vancouver. I bet they thought they were nabbing the next Mohammed Atta.

Threats of animal products: avian influenza and foot-and-mouth disease are two examples.

About CBSA authority upon departure: We do have pretty much the same authority departing as arriving. Of course, there are no exit controls for most people in Canada. The one exception I can think of are inadmissible foreign nationals admitted under a temporary resident permit, which may include the condition of confirming their departure. From a Customs point of view, the main use of this authority is the Proceeds of Crime (Money Laundering) and Terrorist Financing Act as well as strategic export control.

The comment about the taser incident is just plain ignorant. Reports regarding this incident are now public. Review them if you get a chance.

zedhead Apr 11, 2008 11:45 pm


Originally Posted by CBSAguy (Post 9554167)
Fair enough, but about the kevlar vests, I only wears 'em cuz that's what they gives me to wear. Trust me, I'd much rather not.

That reply confirms you as a troll.

tomh009 Apr 12, 2008 4:36 am


Originally Posted by Simon (Post 9558849)
Still no answer on why CBSA have to be so rude/unfriendly and ask so many inane questions compared to how the EU and US treat their citizens on return to their home countries...

Well, I have never gone through the US or EU citizen questions, being Canadian, but I have entered Canada countless times (almost all my flying is international), mostly through YYZ T1 or T3, and occasionally through YUL, YKF or YVR. I have to say that I cannot recall a rude CBSA agent, and there have definitely been many that have been friendly. Often all it takes is one friendly comment when you hand over your passport and form, and the interaction becomes more pleasant. Questions not relating to the form are typically limited to asking where I'm arriving from, and sometimes what business I'm in. And the similar experience applies to land crossings (I fly from BUF from time to time as well).

US immigration, though, at least as a Canadian citizen, has been far less pleasant in my experience. I usually have the feeling that I am being treated guilty until proven innocent, and I generally do not dare make any comments other than 100% factual answers to the questions. The displeasure of answering US immigration questions was, in fact, the prime motivator for me to finally apply for the Nexus card (still in progress).

Overall, my CBSA experience is definitely on par with countries like UK, Australia, New Zealand and Japan, and far better than the US. However, there are definitely fewer questions being asked at EU Schengen countries -- at least of those of us with Canadian passports. And no customs forms needed for EU!

tomh009 Apr 12, 2008 4:41 am


Originally Posted by CBSAguy (Post 9558357)
Not interns. They're university students who work part-time, summers and weekends. Our union is fighting to end the practise of hiring these students and I fully support that fight.

Haven't had any issues with the student staff, either. Would be happy to have permanent agents, though -- as long that does not mean fewer agents available! The line-ups are already slow enough when a 747 or two empties out (though admittedly not as slow as YYZ luggage handling).

Simon Apr 12, 2008 6:44 am


Originally Posted by CBSAguy (Post 9559323)
If you have a problem with CBSA policy, I suggest writing your MP.

Is it "policy" to be rude and unfriendly, as many FT members have noted?
Is it "policy" to be unwelcoming to Canadian citizens?
Is it "policy" to ask questions that have nothing to do with whether the person has any goods they should not, or is not a Canadian citizen?


And, yes, I've been to many places in the world I would call far from diligent.
I see. The USA, UK, France, Netherlands, Russia, etc. would be some of those?

Simon

taupo Apr 12, 2008 8:14 am


Quote:
Originally Posted by CBSAguy
Fair enough, but about the kevlar vests, I only wears 'em cuz that's what they gives me to wear. Trust me, I'd much rather not.

That reply confirms you as a troll.
CBSA members have to wear the vests. They have a militant union that pushes for such things as well as an employer that pushes officer safety.
Zedhead, if you had ever spent an 8-12 hour shift wearing a vest, you would then know that no one actually likes wearing them. They are hot, heavy and cumbersome.
Personally, I think the primary CBSA members look foolish wearing them in the arrivals are of an airport where the arriving people have all had close to cavity checks prior to arriving on their respective flights, however I also know they are not given the choice to wear the vest or not.

Like Simon I do not like the line of questioning that one endures when entering Canada as one's home country. I think some of the questions are too personal to most of us. However I also know the questioning is effective in outing certain people with certain things they shouldn't have. What I don't like is the perception given by CBSA that we are all bad until proven otherwise by our answers to the personal questions. A CBSA member has sweeping powers of search and seizure, far more than the police, they do not need "grounds", they are our frontline security protecting our borders.
Rather than blame the CBSA member you meet, one should blame the employer. It is the employer who is pushing the questioning line.

The US is reknowned (sp) for tough and miserable border people, I have found them to be nothing short of pleasantd and unintrusive. Why does CBSA management insist on being so much more personal and intrusive to it's fellow citizens, than it's southern neighbours, of whom we are guests.

Thank you CBSAguy for joining FT, you will be a great asset in answering many questions and clearing up misconceptions. You will need a mental kevlar vest to deflect much of the flak you will receive here.

tomh009 Apr 12, 2008 9:01 am


Originally Posted by taupo (Post 9560447)
The US is reknowned (sp) for tough and miserable border people, I have found them to be nothing short of pleasantd and unintrusive.

Wow. Which airport or land crossing is this? The US questioning is what drove me to get Nexus (and CanPASS back when it still existed).

Phrantic Apr 12, 2008 9:06 am


Originally Posted by taupo (Post 9560447)
CBSA members have to wear the vests. They have a militant union that pushes for such things as well as an employer that pushes officer safety.
Zedhead, if you had ever spent an 8-12 hour shift wearing a vest, you would then know that no one actually likes wearing them. They are hot, heavy and cumbersome.
Personally, I think the primary CBSA members look foolish wearing them in the arrivals are of an airport where the arriving people have all had close to cavity checks prior to arriving on their respective flights, however I also know they are not given the choice to wear the vest or not.

Like Simon I do not like the line of questioning that one endures when entering Canada as one's home country. I think some of the questions are too personal to most of us. However I also know the questioning is effective in outing certain people with certain things they shouldn't have. What I don't like is the perception given by CBSA that we are all bad until proven otherwise by our answers to the personal questions. A CBSA member has sweeping powers of search and seizure, far more than the police, they do not need "grounds", they are our frontline security protecting our borders.
Rather than blame the CBSA member you meet, one should blame the employer. It is the employer who is pushing the questioning line.

The US is reknowned (sp) for tough and miserable border people, I have found them to be nothing short of pleasantd and unintrusive. Why does CBSA management insist on being so much more personal and intrusive to it's fellow citizens, than it's southern neighbours, of whom we are guests.

Thank you CBSAguy for joining FT, you will be a great asset in answering many questions and clearing up misconceptions. You will need a mental kevlar vest to deflect much of the flak you will receive here.


I'd rather the CBSA spend taxpayer money on protective vests then relying on airport screeners from Lahore, Pakistan. A direct flight to terminal 3.

Joe Airman Apr 12, 2008 9:09 am


Originally Posted by CBSAguy (Post 9559468)
Threats of animal products: avian influenza and foot-and-mouth disease are two examples..

I don't think that any communicable disease (including the 2 mentioned above) can exist in a prepared meat product (dried, smoked, cooked, and possibly even raw). Avian influenza is spread via respiratory or fecal emissions from infected living animals. I can't see how someone bringing in a personal amount of a boxed or packaged meat product would be a threat or would contain a realistically communicable (and viable) pathogen.


Originally Posted by CBSAguy (Post 9559468)
About CBSA authority upon departure: We do have pretty much the same authority departing as arriving. Of course, there are no exit controls for most people in Canada. From a Customs point of view, the main use of this authority is the Proceeds of Crime (Money Laundering) and Terrorist Financing Act as well as strategic export control.

Besides simply asking if someone is leaving the country with more than $10K worth of financial instruments, are there other questions that you are legally entitled to ask? Such as the reason for your departure from Canada, your destination, your expected return date, etc?

Assuming that a Canadian Citizen is not in violation of the $10K rule, does CBS have the legal grounds to prevent the person from departing?

I could be wrong, but I don't recall being asked about the $10k thing when entering or departing any European country. Do they not have a similar rule?


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