I certainly can't tell you what to think is right and wrong

BUT, I think you're missing one of the whole points of having insurance, to protect yourself against exactly this type of situation. I have all sorts of insurance, often overlapping, to cover myself against these situations, and I never hesitate to involve the insurance companies to protect myself. In this case, you could have filed a claim with AMEX Insurance, made sure to tell them you didn't think you damaged the car, and let them fight the fight, and in the end if they were not successful they would pay.

As a side note...I just returned a Budget rental to YVR recently and they are BY FAR the most nit-picky when inspecting for damage. Maybe that is where they make all their money since their rates are among the cheapest. Prior to rental, they indicated there were prior scratches on the right bumper. I barely saw them, but I guess they notice and keep track.

And to be honest, I got harshly dinged for some damage I did, too, but I guess it was my fault However, the amount of the damage (IMO) was outrageous.

And yes, I filed a claim it w/ AMEX, but it is only secondary to my primary insurance Hassle...hassle...hassle...

Stories such as these are getting more and more prevalent!

I wouldn't worry. You presented a valid form of payment. (AMEX) AMEX refused to pay the charges because they believed your case over their merchant, as any judge would based on the evidence you presented in this forum. They probably told Budget that submitting an unsubstantiated claim may be fraud and Budget backed off. The case is now between Budget and Amex. Have you contacted Budget's corporate office? May be worth a try to start another paper trail.

I had a problem with Budget and refuse to rent from them and don't offer them to my employees very often. I rented a car and a couple days after returning it my wife took a call from Budget demanding to know our insurance carrier. She was caught off guard and told them and took the number of the guy from Budget.

I called. He claimed that I caused an accident in a Budget vehicle. He did not have the details or the police report yet, but claimed it was traced to me. He said the car I "hit" had damage and they were going to bill my carrier. I contacted my insurance carrier and they had opened a case! They were also waiting for the police report to investigate it. I informed both of them that this was not true and I demanded to see the police report.

As it turned out, when the police report came, I was not involved. A misplaced digit in the plate number traced it to me. Budget told me not to worry anymore. (Not even an apology!!!) I suggested they wait until they have their facts before starting the claims process. My insurance carrier (rhymes with Gecko!) told me this happens with Budget a lot and were sorry I had to go through it. "Gecko" got a thumbs up on how they handled the process. I had a direct line to the person handling the "claim" and she didn't seem worried at all about it from the beginning once I told her my story.

Result...no more Budget for me or my employees because of their aggressive tactics!!! The one problem we ever had with Hertz (vandalized window) went very smoothly when they found out we rented with AMEX and they covered it.

Update: its now July 2005.

A few months ago I rcvd two letters from a debt collection agency based in Canada. I replied to one and stated that i am disputing the charges and attached the letters I had sent to Amex and the accident report. Since then I have not heard beep (maybe three months now). I have checked our credit scores and nothing has been lodged against us.

Hi thanx for the update, I'll keep my fingers crossed.

It's really scary to hear about stories like the one posted here. What I don't understand is that how Budget (or any rental agency) can hold renters responsible for damages after the keys have been returned. Honestly, anything can happen to a car (even in a secured lot) once it's returned, how then can a renter be responsible for those damages? Isn't it interesting how the rental agency can argue that a final walk-around at the time of return is not considered an "official" inspection, but yet it considers the first walk-around at the time of pick up just before it leaves the lot as official (as if we can do a detail inspection in a couple of minutes, especially in the dark!)?

Anyway, with regards to being aggressively holding renters responsible for damages not caused by them (or should I say "scam"), I think it may depend on the location. I personally have rented from several different Budget locations, and so far (knock on wood), I have not encountered any trouble. I hope Budget's corporate office can do something about these "bad apples" because Budget often provide very affordable (sometimes really cheap) rates.

LAX

Whats the update on the story? And whats the email youve been using to contact them?

A couple suggestions.

If you actually get a letter from a collections agency, you should dispute it, in writing, within 30 days. Send the letter certified with return receipt. They will be required to verify the debt or cease collections. Since this is not a credit case it should not affect your FICO score. Incidentally, your SS# is not require to affect one's credit score.

Additionally, e-mails are a particularly poor method of legal communications. Always send a physical letter even if via fax and follow up with the paper. E-mail is about as serious as a telephone call. Companies know that you are serious when you take time to write a letter, check the grammar and formatting, and post it.

I would suggest getting the name and address of the manager of the location, the regional manager, and the district manager and cc:ing them on the letter. Eventually, they will probably close the file and say, hey, this person isn't worth the trouble.

Good Luck

Ugh - In April 2003 I had a problem with a Budget rental car (Omaha, Nebraska). I rented the car for work purposes but charged it to a personal Diners card since we did not have a corporate card. We were pulling out of a parking space and a passenger noticed that something seemed to be dragging. We got out and noticed that half of the front bumper had fallen off. The car was unsafe to drive so my coworker ripped off the rest of the bumper and threw it into the trunk. We immediately drove back to Budget and provided details and swapped cars.

I provided details to my company and they attempted to followed up with Budget and I continued to rent from them every week. Budget never returned our calls or sent us (me) anything. I haven't moved, all my contact information is in my Budget preferred renter information, continued to rent with them. After awhile we thought the issue was closed.

Well, the issue was not closed since about a week or so ago I received a call from a collection agency. I was kind of baffled in why was a collection agency calling since I always pay off my credit cards and don't have any loans besides my mortgage. It turns out that Budget had sold the debt to a collection agency.

The bad news is that I no longer work for the same company, though I've contacted them, but its a small place and I don't anticipate them trying very hard to resolve this. I gave the company's information to the collection agency but they left a msg yesterday that they were unsuccessful in reaching them. I can't imagine they would try too hard.

Any thoughts?

Can I call up budget directly and figure out what is going on?
How would I substantiate it wasn't my fault?
Why didn't Budget try to reach me directly these past almost 3 years?
The balance is around $800, do I just pay this off to to make my life easier and move on with my life?
I will order a credit report to see if any damage was already done.
What can I ask from the collection agency? how much information do they have on this?
I will also write a letter to collection agency and send it certified mail - but what do I include in it?

Help! Any similiar experiences? Wisdom to share?

Yes, stay off the phone!!! Do not ever talk to a CA!!! NEVER!!! Only use certified Mail-Return Receipt Requested to communicate. Don't believe them for a second that they will work with you. They have many dirty tricks and no morals. Once they get something out of you, they will sell your file to another CA. Unfortunately, this is between you and them now. If they bought the debt and the file has your name on it, you are going to have to deal with this. The good news is that CAs are usually quite stupid and make their money off of uneducated people who don't know their rights. CAs break the law over and over in their attempts to collect (whether it's a valid debt or not). With those violations you can turn the tables around. Go to a site like http://www.creditboards.com to get up to speed. Read and ask many questions.

Well, as you can see from my post right behind this one, I experienced the same thing at the YVR location. Now, this is only my opinion, but I certainly felt like they were shaking down tourist. The amount they charged me was ridiculous.

Do I have insurance to cover it? Yes. That dosen't make it right. I have never felt so ripped off. Frankly, I have yet to find one person in the Cendant organization that cares about this. So I will submit the paperwork to my Visa and be done with it.

What a hassle. My only recourse is that I will NEVER use Budget again for business or liesure travel. There is simply no point in exposing myself to both the expense and hassle. I have never had an issue like this with Hertz nor have I ever heard of anyone who has. They respect their customers and deserve my business.

that was the old hertz. the new hertz with a different owner may feel differently.

Incidentally, one thing to consider. In the US, a rental car company by law in most states must repair damage they collect for. if they do not, then they are in violation. Also they must charge actual cost. A rental company cannot make profit off of damage. Loss Damage/Collision damage waivers, yes. But not off the damage itself.

i would demand proof of repair on EVERY claim against me if I was a renter, regardless of the company if the money had to come out of my own pocket or affected my insurance rates negatively.

How did this turn out for you?

After reading the original post, I wondered if it had happened in YVR. I almost got stuck with a "damage" charge there. I rented at Budget and the nice agent at checkout noted three 1 cm marks on the top of the rear bumper, probably from previous renters loading things into the trunk. She marked them on the damage sheet and I drove off. It rained (in YVR, no surpise) and one of the marks turned from black to blue. On return, the rapid return guy sent me off, but then called me back and said there would be a charge for the small mark for repainting. I argued that it was on the damage sheet, but had to go inside to fight it. After 10 minutes, the counter agent told me that the original agent would have marked it with a different squiggle had the mark been coloured, so it couldn't have been there to start. She only had the bottom copy of the sheet and accused me of changing my copy. I asked for the original (it was a 2 day rental) - not available, it was sent to "auditing". After another 10 minutes of me refusing to pay for it, a manager went out with some weak solvent and a rag, and it wiped right off. No apology, but at least no charge.

I was close to missing the check in window for my flight. What do we have to do - take digital photos and register them with the check out agent?

No more Budget YVR for me.