I'm fed up with FIRST/BA - we're being ripped off
Oct 27, 2006, 5:27 am
#76
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,916
Originally Posted by SchmeckFlyer
Certainly, the logistics of a door-to-door service would be hell, and in these times, I also imagine a security nightmare waiting to happen. But like I said, one can dream, no? I certainly don't imagine it will ever happen.
But... I bet if BA really wanted to do something like that it could happen. Possibly as a compromise, maybe combine the F terminal idea with a chauffeur service to the F terminal as well, thus seperating land- and airside issues? Not quite as seamless as I would hope (and crucially only availably at the main hub airports), but still good nonetheless...
Maybe for Premiers or for über-Goldmembers (or in future a tier beyond gold), the door to door service could be introduced when flying paid-F.
But... I bet if BA really wanted to do something like that it could happen. Possibly as a compromise, maybe combine the F terminal idea with a chauffeur service to the F terminal as well, thus seperating land- and airside issues? Not quite as seamless as I would hope (and crucially only availably at the main hub airports), but still good nonetheless...
Maybe for Premiers or for über-Goldmembers (or in future a tier beyond gold), the door to door service could be introduced when flying paid-F.
The F terminal could even be attached or in some way part of T5 - dedicated driveway and entrance - separate screening area - planeside shuttle service...
This is a new service at Changi
http://jetquay.com.sg/
Oct 27, 2006, 5:30 am
#77
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: London
Programs: Mucci Grandee (Upgraded), BA Silver, AZ MilleMiglia
Posts: 3,107
No personal experience of it, but I suspect LH FRA has the best solution. If you are flying from LHR in whatever aircraft in whatever class, you can't predict your arrival time at the airport accurately because of traffic congestion and you can't predict your takeoff time from the airport accurately because of ground/ATC congestion. So you are obliged to factor in safety margins which means spending time waiting, so the airline should focus on (1) the facilities while waiting, and (2) separating F pax as far as possible from everyone else (as LH has done). Roll on T5?
If you want guaranteed short waiting times, you need to go private (corporate, private or fractional jets), there's no other realistic solution. Then it becomes a tradeoff between overall comfort and point-to-point time. (Much like the decision to fly FIRST or Concorde when that choice was available.)
Out of interest, who offers F long-haul? BA, LH, AF(?), SQ, CX, EK(?), anyone else?
If you want guaranteed short waiting times, you need to go private (corporate, private or fractional jets), there's no other realistic solution. Then it becomes a tradeoff between overall comfort and point-to-point time. (Much like the decision to fly FIRST or Concorde when that choice was available.)
Out of interest, who offers F long-haul? BA, LH, AF(?), SQ, CX, EK(?), anyone else?
Oct 27, 2006, 5:38 am
#79
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: London, UK
Programs: AA 2MM - PLT, BA GGL, SPG Plat, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 6,221
Originally Posted by BAAZ
Out of interest, who offers F long-haul? BA, LH, AF(?), SQ, CX, EK(?), anyone else?
and more I am sure..
Last edited by Moomba; Oct 27, 2006 at 5:44 am
Oct 27, 2006, 5:42 am
#80
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: MAN and LON
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Posts: 13,773
Originally Posted by The Saint
QF, AA, UA, TG, SA, MH, JL
Oct 27, 2006, 7:03 am
#84
Moderator: GLBT travelers, India-based Airlines and India; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Asia
Programs: Yes!
Posts: 15,512
Originally Posted by The Saint
I think LA phased out their F in the Summer this year.
Infact, the link below seems to confirm it as does the random flight info from KVS.
http://www.lan.com/info_viajes/clase...x_primera.html
[KVS Availability Tool 2.4.1/Platinum - Sabre: ITN/US-AXC1]
Code:
SYD Sydney Kingsford Smith NS AU [YSSY] SCL Santiago Arturo Merino Benitez CL [SCEL] MON 27 Nov 2006 Carrier Flight From Depart To Arrive A/C St Availability --------- ------ ---- --------- ---- --------- ---- -- ----------------------------------------- LA 800 SYD 10:45 SCL 12:45 340 1 F4 A4 J4 D0 Y0 B0 H0 K0 M0 L0 V0 S0 N0 Q0
Oct 27, 2006, 10:29 am
#85
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Sevenoaks
Programs: CX Gold, SPG Plat, PC Plat, TAP Gold
Posts: 1,080
A few changes that could be made to improve BA F:
Zero or Low-Cost:
Costs a bit more:
Requires Lots of Money:
Zero or Low-Cost:
- PJs in sizes that fit humans and not elephants.
- Vary the menu more. It's boring when it's always red meat, chicken, fish or veggie to choose from.
- Announce from the lounge when one can board that is genuinely last call. If they say a gate is 5 mins walk away (which I can easily do in 2/3 mins), then why are final boarding calls being made 10 mins before? Are most 1st pax so damn fat that they feel they need to do this? Or do I suspect they just want to go home earlier?!
- Priority ahead of CW and Gold pax on booking Molton Brown spa treatments.
- Service in the CCR. I think in 5 visits, I have seen maybe one or two staff smile in the CCR! I am always polite and smile, but I just seem to notice a lot of grumpiness. Plus an element of job knowledge wouldn't go amiss. On my last visit I asked for a glass of the CH Mis En Cave champers and the response from the waiter was "Is that the blue or the red one?"
- The onboard soft-drink selection is the same as Y. What about some diet lemonade or diet sprite?
- Stop unwrapping the afternoon tea sandwiches so much in advance of serving them. The air onboard is so dry that the sandwiches become more like crispbreads by the time they arrive.
Costs a bit more:
- Better champagne. Even if it's not Krug or Dom, at least it should be a premium marque or vintage.
- Offer a removable headrest. It's great for sitting but really gets in the way when sleeping. So much so, I end up sleeping head first normally.
- Use the CCR as a proper F lounge and not just one that is near identical to the F lounge overflowing with Gold card holders travelling to AMS and CDG. This means premium service, premium food, premium champagnes.
- Upgrade the quality of food. As someone else pointed out, use local organic and seasonal produce where possible. The canapes and sandwiches are particularly 'cheap' at the moment. It's First class for goodness sake - I want at least a little bit of things like foie gras, truffles and caviar. And the chocolates - Lily O'Briens are given out in CE, surely they are not of F standard.
- Can we have REALLY big screens in F to go along with the AVOD roll-out? I have the distinct impression the F pax will get exactly the same as the CW pax in this regard whilst other airlines continue to offer a distinction.
- Proper goose down pillows and duvets and not the man-made crap currently used.
- A closet at the front that opens, closes and latches quietly.
- First pax should be escorted past any queue in the airbridge and straight onto the plane.
Requires Lots of Money:
- Dedicated F service on the ground. Separate Fast Track security that is not shared with CW and separate boarding arrangements using a fleet of private buses of limos.
- A lounge that beats anything that VS can do and more.
- A cabin makeover - new carpets, new trim, softer seats, new seat covers. Maybe some nice leather trim and lose the tacky fake wood.
- Individual temperature control around your seat
Oct 27, 2006, 10:39 am
#86
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 2,324
^
All soungs good to me ... ^
Originally Posted by oyster
A few changes that could be made to improve BA F:
Zero or Low-Cost:
Costs a bit more:
Requires Lots of Money:
Zero or Low-Cost:
- PJs in sizes that fit humans and not elephants.
- Vary the menu more. It's boring when it's always red meat, chicken, fish or veggie to choose from.
- Announce from the lounge when one can board that is genuinely last call. If they say a gate is 5 mins walk away (which I can easily do in 2/3 mins), then why are final boarding calls being made 10 mins before? Are most 1st pax so damn fat that they feel they need to do this? Or do I suspect they just want to go home earlier?!
- Priority ahead of CW and Gold pax on booking Molton Brown spa treatments.
- Service in the CCR. I think in 5 visits, I have seen maybe one or two staff smile in the CCR! I am always polite and smile, but I just seem to notice a lot of grumpiness. Plus an element of job knowledge wouldn't go amiss. On my last visit I asked for a glass of the CH Mis En Cave champers and the response from the waiter was "Is that the blue or the red one?"
- The onboard soft-drink selection is the same as Y. What about some diet lemonade or diet sprite?
- Stop unwrapping the afternoon tea sandwiches so much in advance of serving them. The air onboard is so dry that the sandwiches become more like crispbreads by the time they arrive.
Costs a bit more:
- Better champagne. Even if it's not Krug or Dom, at least it should be a premium marque or vintage.
- Offer a removable headrest. It's great for sitting but really gets in the way when sleeping. So much so, I end up sleeping head first normally.
- Use the CCR as a proper F lounge and not just one that is near identical to the F lounge overflowing with Gold card holders travelling to AMS and CDG. This means premium service, premium food, premium champagnes.
- Upgrade the quality of food. As someone else pointed out, use local organic and seasonal produce where possible. The canapes and sandwiches are particularly 'cheap' at the moment. It's First class for goodness sake - I want at least a little bit of things like foie gras, truffles and caviar. And the chocolates - Lily O'Briens are given out in CE, surely they are not of F standard.
- Can we have REALLY big screens in F to go along with the AVOD roll-out? I have the distinct impression the F pax will get exactly the same as the CW pax in this regard whilst other airlines continue to offer a distinction.
- Proper goose down pillows and duvets and not the man-made crap currently used.
- A closet at the front that opens, closes and latches quietly.
- First pax should be escorted past any queue in the airbridge and straight onto the plane.
Requires Lots of Money:
- Dedicated F service on the ground. Separate Fast Track security that is not shared with CW and separate boarding arrangements using a fleet of private buses of limos.
- A lounge that beats anything that VS can do and more.
- A cabin makeover - new carpets, new trim, softer seats, new seat covers. Maybe some nice leather trim and lose the tacky fake wood.
- Individual temperature control around your seat
Oct 27, 2006, 1:27 pm
#87
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Caribbean
Programs: AA Executive Platinum, US Air Silver Preferred, BA ExecSilver
Posts: 758
Originally Posted by number_6
BA F was superb until 2004, then they got caught in a perfect storm. A convergence of a need to cut costs, labour troubles, aging fleet, improving competition and mis-management in the responses to these problems. Leading to year after year of decline in the service aspects of the airline (I believe the technical operations are still superb, 3-engined 744 flights not withstanding). Overall BA remains firmly in the top 10 airlines in the world; so still well above average, and the same applies to the FIRST service. But it is not what it once was, and it clearly will never again be what it once was. How ironic as BA pioneered the concept (first with suites, etc.) and really inspired the competition to revamp their F products to be at a much higher level. Now it seems BA simply cannot keep up, or rather is relying on T5 to be the basis for a service relaunch.
To be fair to the BA FAs, the F staffing level was based on F not being full most of the time (and in fact it was rare to be half full until a few years ago) and this allowed more time per pax for service. It also perhaps conspired to create inefficient procedures and a lack of investment in outfitting the galleys properly, etc (I like to look at airline galleys and it is amazing how much diversity there is, with some such as CX and LH having completely different galleys -- for the better). Now that BA is often selling J with F seating on some routes and corporate contracts, F is always full, and they really need an extra FA or more efficient procedures. If they want the service level restored, that is. Unfortunately their competition does.
To be fair to the BA FAs, the F staffing level was based on F not being full most of the time (and in fact it was rare to be half full until a few years ago) and this allowed more time per pax for service. It also perhaps conspired to create inefficient procedures and a lack of investment in outfitting the galleys properly, etc (I like to look at airline galleys and it is amazing how much diversity there is, with some such as CX and LH having completely different galleys -- for the better). Now that BA is often selling J with F seating on some routes and corporate contracts, F is always full, and they really need an extra FA or more efficient procedures. If they want the service level restored, that is. Unfortunately their competition does.
Oct 27, 2006, 1:57 pm
#88
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: London
Programs: BAEC Bronze :(
Posts: 134
I've never flown in F, but I was planning to do so at some point in the future, for the sake of spending all the miles I've been accumulating.
I'm not entirely put off by the comments in this thread, but I am now having second thoughts
Are some routes better than others, or is it (as generally seems the case) just dependant on the crew you get on the day?
I'm not entirely put off by the comments in this thread, but I am now having second thoughts
Are some routes better than others, or is it (as generally seems the case) just dependant on the crew you get on the day?
Oct 27, 2006, 2:11 pm
#89
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Portland OR Double Emerald (QF and AA), DL PM/MM, Starwood Plat
Posts: 19,589
Originally Posted by _Sin
I've never flown in F, but I was planning to do so at some point in the future, for the sake of spending all the miles I've been accumulating.
I'm not entirely put off by the comments in this thread, but I am now having second thoughts
Are some routes better than others, or is it (as generally seems the case) just dependant on the crew you get on the day?
I'm not entirely put off by the comments in this thread, but I am now having second thoughts
Are some routes better than others, or is it (as generally seems the case) just dependant on the crew you get on the day?
Oct 27, 2006, 2:24 pm
#90
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: AA Lifetime PLT , BA Silver , BD RIP , HH Gold, SPG / Marriott PLT , EF Subscriber
Posts: 6,702
Originally Posted by bealine
Take a full 14 seat F cabin on any typical sector - in all probability 2 seats will be taken by pax paying the full "F" fare, 2 seats will be taken by senior airline managers or flying crew on free or heavily discounted tickets, 4 seats will be taken by fare-paying passengers on heavily discounted tickets, 4 seats will be "Op Ups" from Club World, 2 seats will be mileage awards (producing zero revenue for BA).
)
)
Lets now look at The BreakDown:
2 Full Fare...OK they have Paid up to 25 time more than a Discounted Y Passenger.
2 Free Managers or Flight Crew, this surely has always been the case. Or did they fly Economy back in the Old 2 Class days?
4 Seats on Heavily Discounted...Even a Heavily Discounted RTW Fare if bought in the UK is Amazing Revenue at around 15 time Y Class.
4 Op-Ups, if these are Full Fare CW Passengers its still double what EOS are getting a Passenger in their First Class style Seats.
2 Award Pax, to tell people who have paid for and earned these miles that they are Zero Revenue for BA is just plain Daft, I fly often BA First on AA miles so I assume AA are Paying BA a nice sum.
Finally if BA Management are doing such a Bad Job at the moment why has the BA share price grown at 3 times the FT Index?