GB AIRWAYS: love or loathe?
Mar 1, 2006, 5:48 pm
#16
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,632
Too bad about Fez, there are not many other options and it's a long train ride from Casablanca. I've "done" Marrakesh and don't want to go again but I'd go back to Fez in a flash.
I have taken GB out of LHR to Casa and Marrakesh, they were perfectly acceptable except coach seat pitch seemed very tight (I didn't formally measure it).
I have taken GB out of LHR to Casa and Marrakesh, they were perfectly acceptable except coach seat pitch seemed very tight (I didn't formally measure it).
Mar 2, 2006, 2:12 am
#17
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,806
GT are great ^ . Mainline should not be thinking of axeing GT, they should be learning from it (scheduling apart 
). The CE service puts LGW mainline CE to shame. Also the staff are so much more helpful. By way of example, on my recent trip to SSH, I noticed that they released a batch of I class seats about 3 weeks before departure. Had an upgradeable ticket, so wanted to move up to CE. Problem: no I seats on return journey. So rang GB customer service. They put me through to revenue management and within minutes 4 I class seats had been released and the upgrade processed. By comparison, it is absolutely impossible to communicate with mainline revenue management (phone, fax, email - no chance, they won't even respond to messages sent from telesales). And perhaps they could learn a lesson from this. By engaging with the customer, GB airways earned significant additional revenue whereas with mainline I would have remained in ET (possibly to have been op up'd) and the revenue opportunity would have been lost.
As to the scheduling changes, I rather see these as the inevitable consequence of operating an elaborate route structure (from which we benefit because it gives us more destinations) with a limited fleet.
). The CE service puts LGW mainline CE to shame. Also the staff are so much more helpful. By way of example, on my recent trip to SSH, I noticed that they released a batch of I class seats about 3 weeks before departure. Had an upgradeable ticket, so wanted to move up to CE. Problem: no I seats on return journey. So rang GB customer service. They put me through to revenue management and within minutes 4 I class seats had been released and the upgrade processed. By comparison, it is absolutely impossible to communicate with mainline revenue management (phone, fax, email - no chance, they won't even respond to messages sent from telesales). And perhaps they could learn a lesson from this. By engaging with the customer, GB airways earned significant additional revenue whereas with mainline I would have remained in ET (possibly to have been op up'd) and the revenue opportunity would have been lost.As to the scheduling changes, I rather see these as the inevitable consequence of operating an elaborate route structure (from which we benefit because it gives us more destinations) with a limited fleet.
Mar 2, 2006, 2:15 am
#18
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 88
Originally Posted by Bukhara
Add some small changes to the mainline MAA schedules. Shocking...
I can only agree with you, Smashmouth. You can immeidately predict how a conversation will span when it begins with the immortal words "I've just received an email from you...." Occasionally, it's about a change to an AA flight (usually only a couple of minutes) but, 95% of the time, it's an unfortunate punter booked on a GB flight. And you're right, GB's shenanigans are wrecking customer trust in BA. Who needs wildcat strikes when you have GB Airways schedule planners?
On the occasions that I have booked H*tl*n* tickets for the family to Crete and Marrakech, I have only done so on the basis that they are fully prepared for a 24hr schedule change. The family left for Crete as they expected, but arrived back in LGW some 10 hours later than when originally booked. The northern contingent of the family had their handy direct flights from MAN to Marrakech routed via LHR instead. A 100% failure rate. Not the end of world, I accept. But to have it happen with such regularity is mind boggling.
Now that EZY are sending their planes to Morocco, it will be interesting to see GB's reaction. They are usually not too keen on a fight as shown by their farces in VLC, OPO and MJV.
I am not aware of any other scheduled airline in existence that makes as many changes as GB. Any minor adjustments to Oz are miniscule compared to the total re-adjustments that GB will make.
GB Airways are universally despised by those people who have to service their bookings, and this is only heightened when IB also cancel VLC - only to offer pax a reasonable re-route option via Barcelona, FREE OF CHARGE!!!! GB will not let you re-route unless you pay the extra spondulicks!
I can only agree with you, Smashmouth. You can immeidately predict how a conversation will span when it begins with the immortal words "I've just received an email from you...." Occasionally, it's about a change to an AA flight (usually only a couple of minutes) but, 95% of the time, it's an unfortunate punter booked on a GB flight. And you're right, GB's shenanigans are wrecking customer trust in BA. Who needs wildcat strikes when you have GB Airways schedule planners?
On the occasions that I have booked H*tl*n* tickets for the family to Crete and Marrakech, I have only done so on the basis that they are fully prepared for a 24hr schedule change. The family left for Crete as they expected, but arrived back in LGW some 10 hours later than when originally booked. The northern contingent of the family had their handy direct flights from MAN to Marrakech routed via LHR instead. A 100% failure rate. Not the end of world, I accept. But to have it happen with such regularity is mind boggling.
Now that EZY are sending their planes to Morocco, it will be interesting to see GB's reaction. They are usually not too keen on a fight as shown by their farces in VLC, OPO and MJV.
I am not aware of any other scheduled airline in existence that makes as many changes as GB. Any minor adjustments to Oz are miniscule compared to the total re-adjustments that GB will make.
GB Airways are universally despised by those people who have to service their bookings, and this is only heightened when IB also cancel VLC - only to offer pax a reasonable re-route option via Barcelona, FREE OF CHARGE!!!! GB will not let you re-route unless you pay the extra spondulicks!
Mar 2, 2006, 2:53 am
#19
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Cardiff, UK
Programs: BA GGL, Concorde Room card, KLM Silver, PC Platinum Ambassador, Marriott Platinum, UA Premier Silver
Posts: 5,278
Originally Posted by The Saint
GT are great ^ . Mainline should not be thinking of axeing GT, they should be learning from it (scheduling apart ). The CE service puts LGW mainline CE to shame.
As to the scheduling changes, I rather see these as the inevitable consequence of operating an elaborate route structure (from which we benefit because it gives us more destinations) with a limited fleet.
). The CE service puts LGW mainline CE to shame. As to the scheduling changes, I rather see these as the inevitable consequence of operating an elaborate route structure (from which we benefit because it gives us more destinations) with a limited fleet.
The recent GIB trip was evidence to the fact that Club Europe food inparticular was better than some regular travellers who attended the get together had received in Club World. Plus the Champagne was certainly better than the Monopol.....
I totally agree the vast array of routes with a relatively small aircraft fleet is undoubedly most challenging! They seem to do quite well on the whole plus delivering a superior product in comparison to mainline. ^
Mar 2, 2006, 3:26 am
#20
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: England, though not on purpose.
Posts: 3,563
I must admit I always look forward to GB flights, I agree with Flyclub, the service and food is always better and I have never had a delay or schedule change.
The stats reported about GB are, I am sure, correct and undeniably poor. I suppose I have been lucky...
The stats reported about GB are, I am sure, correct and undeniably poor. I suppose I have been lucky...
Mar 2, 2006, 5:32 am
#22
Join Date: Jan 2000
Programs: Latinpass Million Miler. BA Gold.
Posts: 3,544
Originally Posted by Dave_C
Haven't GB just got a new MD who's ex-Thomsonfly?
He's starting in July.
Mar 2, 2006, 6:18 am
#23
Fontaine d'honneur du Flyertalk
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Morbihan, France
Programs: Reine des Muccis de Pucci; Foreign Elitist (according to others)
Posts: 19,179
This is a very serious issue. So I have put my lip gloss on as I cannot do serious without it.
Now to the rest. GB have chopped and changed timings - even dates to and fro. People are not happy. I know from friends of mine that have been messed about travelling to Tunis in early September. You are right - it reflect on BA.
My view is that those who are inconveneinced - indeed disrupted - by this sort of thing have got a very legitimate complaint. I strongly suspect that this is due to overstratching the fleet. I think that they are juggling crews and aircraft. Last summer they had one A320 (I think) that was constantly going tech.
My thoughts would be to write to the MD of GB Airways. There may be a very good reason for it, there may not. It could be the BAA messing the LGW slots and this is being balanced with the o/ses slots. Just a thought.
Now to Brian_1
I do not believe you. Unless I have photographic evidence I refuse to believe that you wear BA underear. I heard the most dreadful rumour that heat makes the colour run and this has led to very red faces - or some such.
Now to the rest. GB have chopped and changed timings - even dates to and fro. People are not happy. I know from friends of mine that have been messed about travelling to Tunis in early September. You are right - it reflect on BA.
My view is that those who are inconveneinced - indeed disrupted - by this sort of thing have got a very legitimate complaint. I strongly suspect that this is due to overstratching the fleet. I think that they are juggling crews and aircraft. Last summer they had one A320 (I think) that was constantly going tech.
My thoughts would be to write to the MD of GB Airways. There may be a very good reason for it, there may not. It could be the BAA messing the LGW slots and this is being balanced with the o/ses slots. Just a thought.
Now to Brian_1
I do not believe you. Unless I have photographic evidence I refuse to believe that you wear BA underear. I heard the most dreadful rumour that heat makes the colour run and this has led to very red faces - or some such.
Mar 2, 2006, 2:16 pm
#24
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by slhart
Bukhara, I am flying GB (booked on BA.com) to Crete in July. May I PM you to ask what caused the delays when you traveled there?
I agree with a lot of the comments made about GB. I very rarely hear complaints about the actual product itself and, in fact, primarily hear the opposite. But this is severely compromised by the scheduling lunacy.
Complicated route network - my tail end! I don't know how many planes GB Airways have in their fleet, but they seem to plan the scedules on the basis of having, say, 35 planes available. They then tweek this later in the year to reflect the actual fleet size of maybe 25 planes. It's absolutely barmy and wreaks havoc!
I know that BA's franchise relations manager has been having stern words with GB as 2006's debacle has been extraordinary. If sanity does not grab hold of GB's schedulers then there could well be repercussions for the franchise agreement. And, I assure you, there is no way GB could survive on their own 2 feet if they continued as they have been. They would simply become too risky for TA's to book.
Mar 3, 2006, 2:19 am
#25
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,806
I'm sorry, but I rate the chances of BA dropping GT as a franchise partner as next to nil. What are they going to do? Just drop around 25 routes from the BA network? It's not as if they have the planes (or an LGW strategy) that could simply pick up the slack.
OK they may have some words to say about scheduling, but let's be real about the likelihood of the nuclear option.
OK they may have some words to say about scheduling, but let's be real about the likelihood of the nuclear option.
Mar 3, 2006, 3:11 am
#26
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Programs: Mucci. Nothing else matters.
Posts: 38,644
Originally Posted by Bukhara
If sanity does not grab hold of GB's schedulers then there could well be repercussions for the franchise agreement. And, I assure you, there is no way GB could survive on their own 2 feet if they continued as they have been. They would simply become too risky for TA's to book.
Losing the southwest England Brymon routes to an independent caused no end of complaints, but the bad parts of the GT operation seem to illustrate some of the downsides of relying on a franchisee to do things that you can't do yourself.
Mar 3, 2006, 6:01 am
#27
Fontaine d'honneur du Flyertalk
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Morbihan, France
Programs: Reine des Muccis de Pucci; Foreign Elitist (according to others)
Posts: 19,179
Do you think that I could get away with sending Him Indoors aboard as my "franchise"? The fact that he would stand for absolutely no truck with any of the DYKWIA brigade would probably be very popular with the crew but might end my employment with British Airways. I want my pension.
Secoond thoughts - I won't sub-contract. Too dicey.
PG
Secoond thoughts - I won't sub-contract. Too dicey.
PG
Mar 3, 2006, 8:25 am
#29
Join Date: Mar 2005
Programs: Mucci, BA-GGL, LH-Sen
Posts: 2,241
My experience with GB has been fine every time. On board I really cannot tell the difference that much, if anything i'd argue they are marginally better or more consistent.
I agree that changes all the time are a pain but I was lucky not to have those. Anyone care to slag off BD?
I agree that changes all the time are a pain but I was lucky not to have those. Anyone care to slag off BD?
Mar 3, 2006, 7:47 pm
#30
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Manchester
Posts: 292
Wow! I'm actually quite surprised by the depth of love for GB!!!
Perhaps it takes experience of dealing with pax of the shouty variety who’ve had their flights shifted from a 9pm departure to midday, then to 7am, then booked a hotel at LGW because of the early start, then had a message notifying them the flight’s been moved back to it’s original 9pm slot to reach the same level of unanimous loathing that myself, PUCCI and Bukhara feel towards them!
Certainly it's true that they have to work aggressively to remain competitive against the low cost/charter ops, but I think they're doing an awful lot to shoot themselves in the foot in that respect.
Aiming to increase fleet utilisation (15 aircraft) at 6 sectors (equiv. 17hrs a day) across 34 routes obviously makes commercial sense.
But to sell seats on flights based on such tight and intricate schedules before the additional runway slots have been granted seems to border on incompetence. It results in having to juggle the flights around to make all the sectors connect based on the runway capacity they end up with - queue the first round of schedule changes -, realise they've over-stretched themselves, so drop a couple of routes which gives a bit of breathing space for them to re-jig things again - queue schedule change marathon round 2.
I doubt it hugely that BA will sever ties with GT, but I find it disappointing that they treat their passengers with such disregard… worse, when BA raise the issue with them, they release an internal memo emphasising their contractual rights to change schedules… and of course how generous they are being by allowing passengers a full refund in order to book elsewhere (too bad if on the doorstep of summer, the other airlines are either full or the new flights cost astronomically more than the original GB flight).
But, hey… at least the onboard stuff is all good – that should be the main emphasis… although, as many of our summer 2006 passengers are now doing, given the choice, I’d take the Easy option rather than risk the GB lottery.
Perhaps it takes experience of dealing with pax of the shouty variety who’ve had their flights shifted from a 9pm departure to midday, then to 7am, then booked a hotel at LGW because of the early start, then had a message notifying them the flight’s been moved back to it’s original 9pm slot to reach the same level of unanimous loathing that myself, PUCCI and Bukhara feel towards them!
Certainly it's true that they have to work aggressively to remain competitive against the low cost/charter ops, but I think they're doing an awful lot to shoot themselves in the foot in that respect.
Aiming to increase fleet utilisation (15 aircraft) at 6 sectors (equiv. 17hrs a day) across 34 routes obviously makes commercial sense.
But to sell seats on flights based on such tight and intricate schedules before the additional runway slots have been granted seems to border on incompetence. It results in having to juggle the flights around to make all the sectors connect based on the runway capacity they end up with - queue the first round of schedule changes -, realise they've over-stretched themselves, so drop a couple of routes which gives a bit of breathing space for them to re-jig things again - queue schedule change marathon round 2.
I doubt it hugely that BA will sever ties with GT, but I find it disappointing that they treat their passengers with such disregard… worse, when BA raise the issue with them, they release an internal memo emphasising their contractual rights to change schedules… and of course how generous they are being by allowing passengers a full refund in order to book elsewhere (too bad if on the doorstep of summer, the other airlines are either full or the new flights cost astronomically more than the original GB flight).
But, hey… at least the onboard stuff is all good – that should be the main emphasis… although, as many of our summer 2006 passengers are now doing, given the choice, I’d take the Easy option rather than risk the GB lottery.