Why am I overtaken by other aircraft before take-off?
#46
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,074
A bit of a tongue-in-cheek observation / question of course but do any airlines get preferential treatment at airports?
Without fail at Gatwick, on a BA plane we usually get out to the holding point and seem to sit there for a minimum 10-15 minutes whilst a string of Easyjet planes go past us and take-off. Usually it seems at least 50% of these have arrived at the holding area after the BA one I am on - but then depart ahead of us. It can't be due to plane types for separation distance as they are all A32X series. Whether they are turning left or right on departure maybe?
Plus regarding push-back times, one frequently will hear a member of the flight deck say "we are ready to go so are negotiating with air traffic for an earlier departure". Now to most the word "negotiate" means to trade something in exchange for something in return and a quick google of the meaning is: to transfer to another in return for something of equal value. Therefore what exactly does a member of the flight deck have to offer the fine chap in ATC in return for a better slot time?
So maybe during the push-back time "negotiation" the Easyjet pilots have more up their sleeve to offer the ATC chaps and get the priority first onto the runway?
Without fail at Gatwick, on a BA plane we usually get out to the holding point and seem to sit there for a minimum 10-15 minutes whilst a string of Easyjet planes go past us and take-off. Usually it seems at least 50% of these have arrived at the holding area after the BA one I am on - but then depart ahead of us. It can't be due to plane types for separation distance as they are all A32X series. Whether they are turning left or right on departure maybe?
Plus regarding push-back times, one frequently will hear a member of the flight deck say "we are ready to go so are negotiating with air traffic for an earlier departure". Now to most the word "negotiate" means to trade something in exchange for something in return and a quick google of the meaning is: to transfer to another in return for something of equal value. Therefore what exactly does a member of the flight deck have to offer the fine chap in ATC in return for a better slot time?
So maybe during the push-back time "negotiation" the Easyjet pilots have more up their sleeve to offer the ATC chaps and get the priority first onto the runway?
#47
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: LHR Air Traffic Control
Programs: BAEC Silver
Posts: 884
A bit of a tongue-in-cheek observation / question of course but do any airlines get preferential treatment at airports?
Without fail at Gatwick, on a BA plane we usually get out to the holding point and seem to sit there for a minimum 10-15 minutes whilst a string of Easyjet planes go past us and take-off. Usually it seems at least 50% of these have arrived at the holding area after the BA one I am on - but then depart ahead of us. It can't be due to plane types for separation distance as they are all A32X series. Whether they are turning left or right on departure maybe?
Plus regarding push-back times, one frequently will hear a member of the flight deck say "we are ready to go so are negotiating with air traffic for an earlier departure". Now to most the word "negotiate" means to trade something in exchange for something in return and a quick google of the meaning is: to transfer to another in return for something of equal value. Therefore what exactly does a member of the flight deck have to offer the fine chap in ATC in return for a better slot time?
So maybe during the push-back time "negotiation" the Easyjet pilots have more up their sleeve to offer the ATC chaps and get the priority first onto the runway?
Without fail at Gatwick, on a BA plane we usually get out to the holding point and seem to sit there for a minimum 10-15 minutes whilst a string of Easyjet planes go past us and take-off. Usually it seems at least 50% of these have arrived at the holding area after the BA one I am on - but then depart ahead of us. It can't be due to plane types for separation distance as they are all A32X series. Whether they are turning left or right on departure maybe?
Plus regarding push-back times, one frequently will hear a member of the flight deck say "we are ready to go so are negotiating with air traffic for an earlier departure". Now to most the word "negotiate" means to trade something in exchange for something in return and a quick google of the meaning is: to transfer to another in return for something of equal value. Therefore what exactly does a member of the flight deck have to offer the fine chap in ATC in return for a better slot time?
So maybe during the push-back time "negotiation" the Easyjet pilots have more up their sleeve to offer the ATC chaps and get the priority first onto the runway?
The only thing I could think might appear a little bit preferential, is that sometimes when there's an opportunity for an aircraft to depart/taxi/pushback quickly via a complicated radio instruction, then chances are we'll choose a native English speaker (or maybe KLM, Lufthansa, SAS) just to reduce the possibility of the instruction not being understood on first transmission.
In terms of Gatwick, I would be guessing, but you might have a CTOT (BA from Gatwick are currently mainly to Spain/Med? I don't know), or your route might be subject to a temporarily-imposed greater Minimum Departure Interval, whereas some of the others you're seeing overtake might be domestic EZY flights which don't have such restrictions? Also, there could be situations where, depending on the taxiways used, you might have been able to get to the 'front' of the queue from where BA's stands are, by overtaking a few EZYs, but in terms of 'time order' you are behind them, so ATC is departing those first? We see it sometimes with 09R departures from T4...There may be 10 or so at the holding points to the north of the runway by T5, but the sole T4 departure trundles out and sits right by the threshold, even though it's no.11 for departure. After a few minutes it's still only no.8 and starts asking when it's going to be permitted to depart, because the fact it 'overtook' 10 others doesn't register from a human factors point of view.
Last edited by Heathrow Tower; Mar 30, 2023 at 3:39 am