scottishpoet

nobody has disputed that covid has played a part in the cancellations.

Tobias-UK

Then I'm sorry, I've missed the point you were trying to make.

scottishpoet

my point is that after 2 years of covid that cancelling services for covid related reasons can no longer be considered exceptional circumstances

I am sure that will be the basis of karfas cedr case

bisonrav

After 2 years, Covid is not an extraordinary circumstance. It's the norm. Fundamentally that's the issue here. A crew on a return leg with a positive case is an extraordinary circumstance in the context of that flight. Operational cancellations 10 days out are not.

These cancellations are already trashing customers' plans. BA could handle that with more flexibility around re-bookings in the first place, but they choose not to. Then quibbling about compensation with people whom you've already annoyed just adds insult to injury. I've had direct experience of claims with two other companies recently. IcelandAir paid up pretty much instantly, with an option for vouchers which I took, EasyJet, in much the same situation as BA, took a week.

I currently have 3 active EC261 claims in the system, 1 CEDR, and one pending the result of one of the other three. These are now 6-8 weeks old. I don't know what BA think they are achieving by their high handed attitude, but it sure isn't an enhanced customer satisfaction score.

Tobias-UK

I'll leave it there I think, you appear to have misunderstood the legal nuances and taken us back to post one.

Oh I'm certain KARFA will have much more than that!

GrannyWeatherwax

Of course, it is a simplification. But, all things being equal BA are fighting an uphill battle to recruit staff because of their previous behaviour. They're not a good employer and they pay mediocre salaries. Given that it's currently (and probably for a while) an employee's market, they need to do a lot better if they want to attract and retain staff. That is entirely within their remit.

Their ramping up faster is their fault - nobody else but BA management decide how to ramp up flights - and the increased absence from COVID was always likely. The ONS publish statistics to show daily COVID rates and I'm sure it can easily be extrapolated from that what an expected rate of sickness is likely to be.

I have little sympathy for BA I'm sorry to say. They've behaved badly towards staff for years and now they're behaving badly towards customers (the old customer service adage seems apt here: you cannot win arguments with customers ). As an outsider looking in this seems to me to be a recipe for disaster.

KARFA

I am mostly copying the good arguments from FT!

Tafflyer

The law already provides BA with the perfect excuse for not paying compensation; don't cancel at less than 14 days before departure.

Covid is normal now, so is unavailability of staff. As is understaffing in airports, at border controls and in supply chains. All these factors affect how you run your business and mitigate risks. When I see the fares BA are currently offering for the sectors I fly, I would most certainly say that these difficult factors have been calculated in. This, for me, allows even less justification for short-notice cancellations. BA have been opportunistic in reducing staffing levels and shedding more experienced higher paid employees in order to rely on less experienced and lower paid employees to provide a service. They probably miscalculated the risk as well as the time it takes to bring new employees on board as well as most probably the preparedness of people to work for the miserable starting salaries they now offer.

Is any of this extraordinary circumstances? No. But it is extraordinary that they were foolish enough to plan full schedules in light of these well known and not sudden difficulties.

For me this is an example of the contempt in which BA as a business hold their customers. My tier point count is currently not increasing, whereas my mile counts on other airlines are.

scottishpoet

If the BA argument is sick leave due to covid (and i accept that may not be their argument) then either he does not believe them or he does not believe that is exceptional circumstance

bwallet

More than two years into the pandemic, it is laughable that they were claim that it "could not have been anticipated".

wesheltonj

While I don't know UK or EU law (although I did study it in law school in the US and UK), I think BA is going to have a difficult time succeeding. For example, I know my flight my is cancelled, even through BA will not say that it is when I called them. The flight does not show up on google flights or LHR website and has not for 2 weeks. My 10 days is up on Monday. I presume that BA will have to place me on another flight as my flight is connected to a long haul flight. As far a compensation claims, I am not sure, how BA goes forward, considering they announced they they did not have enough stuff and would be cancelling flights all summer. They knew they did not have to staff to cover their schedule, but yet continue to schedules flights and take bookings anyway. While I agree, they have an argument to make, I suspect a trier of facts is going to as we say in the USA "pour them out."

RadioFlyer7

Will be interesting to see how these first cases do with CEDR etc.

If they succeed and BA loses, surely it’s incredibly unethical to keep denying customer claims.

I’m not a lawyer, but might they be opening themselves up to some kind of bad faith claaa action. Or even censure by the CAA?

Agent69

But it's not just BA that are struggling to recruit enough staff. Recent media reports confirmed Easy Jet are restricting the number of passengers on their aircraft so that they can minimise the number of crew needed.

Over the last 2 years airlines have had little control over where and when they fly, and limited notice of changes to regulations that would significantly affect demand. About 8 weeeks ago there were 100k covid cases a day, yesterday there were 529. Who know what the situation will be in 8 weeks time? Covid is a moveable feast and to say it shouldn't impact a business because it started 2 years ago is a bit disingenuous. That said, attempting to dismiss a claim by saying it's caused by Covid is a bit too simplistic for my likings.

GrannyWeatherwax

I don't think anyone is saying it shouldn't impact a business. What people are saying is that it's a manageable problem that is something we have to learn to live with and deal with. BA seem to be just unable to see this and deal with it and are trying, now, to push the problem onto their clients in different ways. This is a short-sighted method of dealing with it - because once you start to alienate your client base you're on very, very rocky ground.

PUCCI GALORE

My Loves, have you seen the bottom of the article

A British Airways spokesperson said: “We’re sorry that in this case we incorrectly denied a compensation claim and we’re contacting our customer to apologise and resolve the matter.”

I had wondered if anyone here had been in receipt,of a denial of the claim. On the strength of it, it would seem that BA has admitted to a mistake and are taking care of the matter. Does anyone know different or have I missed something?