Assigned Middle Seat in Club Europe
Mar 31, 2022, 1:45 am
#16
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: SE1, London
Posts: 23,449
As a response to once a decade disruption caused by external factors eg massive fog disruption this seems a fair and sensible response. 4 times in 3 months is most certainly not fair or appropriate.
Mar 31, 2022, 1:57 am
#17
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: GLA
Programs: Chevalier de la Gallentrie - Knight of the Platinum Hair Brush, BA Gold, Hilton Gold
Posts: 1,389
This seems to be their new model. Self-inflicted issues arise (whether chronic IT failures due to years of underinvestment and losing/making redundant experienced staff who knew how it all works); letting too many people go during the pandemic, leading to staff shortages in CC and ground handling services; and looking at this as a quick and easy way to get themselves out of a hole they dug. They are still selling Club Europe on their website stating "We keep the middle seat free so you can always enjoy a guaranteed window or aisle seat and more personal space for working and relaxing."
I love BA - it's still my favorite airline (despite its flaws), and I take heart in the fact that Sean Doyle is acknowledging the shortcomings for both customers and staff, but they need to stop this particular practice now.
Mar 31, 2022, 2:06 am
#18
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Krakow
Programs: BAEC Silver, Miles and More(FTL), IHG(Platinum), Accor, HHonors(Diamond), SPG, Hertz Five Star
Posts: 5,938
Mar 31, 2022, 2:23 am
#19
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: UK
Programs: BA Silver, IHG Platinum
Posts: 943
Here is the email:
This is a bit of a porky-pie in my case. My email relates to BA709 tomorrow (ZRH->LON). It could only be full in CE because on Saturday last week they cancelled the later BA711 - with a week's notice, they could easily have chartered another plane, so this is a cost thing. Moreover, for inexplicable reasons they have not moved back the curtain on BA713 which has plenty of availability in Y but none in J (which I am currently on hold to the GGL line for, in a yet another attempt to get onto having been waitlisted, else I will switch to LCY). And to cap it all BA709 isn't actually that full as it only has 5 rows of J, and enough Y availability to move the curtain back by at least one row. But that would mean they couldn't sell more Y tickets!
This is a bit of a porky-pie in my case. My email relates to BA709 tomorrow (ZRH->LON). It could only be full in CE because on Saturday last week they cancelled the later BA711 - with a week's notice, they could easily have chartered another plane, so this is a cost thing. Moreover, for inexplicable reasons they have not moved back the curtain on BA713 which has plenty of availability in Y but none in J (which I am currently on hold to the GGL line for, in a yet another attempt to get onto having been waitlisted, else I will switch to LCY). And to cap it all BA709 isn't actually that full as it only has 5 rows of J, and enough Y availability to move the curtain back by at least one row. But that would mean they couldn't sell more Y tickets!
Still awaiting a response from BA following that as well, having had I think three "sorry you are waiting" emails.
Mar 31, 2022, 2:43 am
#20
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: GLA
Programs: Chevalier de la Gallentrie - Knight of the Platinum Hair Brush, BA Gold, Hilton Gold
Posts: 1,389
Agreed. If this was a "once in a blue moon" issue due to unforseen circumstances (volcanic eruption; traffic controller strike; conflict somewhere) then it would be less of a problem when viewed as a way to get everyone home with minimum delay and disruption. Fine - i could live with that. Repeatedly doing it because you're IT is sh*t and you're choosing to cancel and consolidate services as a result - yeah, that's not on.
Mar 31, 2022, 2:44 am
#21
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: GLA
Programs: Chevalier de la Gallentrie - Knight of the Platinum Hair Brush, BA Gold, Hilton Gold
Posts: 1,389
Mar 31, 2022, 3:36 am
#23
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Bridport, Dorset
Programs: Mucci, BA Bronze, Hilton Gold
Posts: 2,130
The reason it can STILL be called Club Europe is because this has been the Business Class model within Europe for 30+ years now. Only in Europe nobody kicks up a fuss that the seat isn't substantially more opulent or offering significantly more legroom than Economy to a degree that the airlines are forced to reconsider the model. People are still stumping up the cash fares after all this time so something about it is clearly working.
Mar 31, 2022, 3:49 am
#24
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 7,875
Mar 31, 2022, 4:46 am
#26
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Glasgow, UK
Programs: BA, UA, Marriot
Posts: 2,196
Mar 31, 2022, 5:10 am
#27
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Programs: JAL Global Club & oneworld Sapphire, ANA SFC & Star Alliance Gold
Posts: 3,747
The reason it can STILL be called Club Europe is because this has been the Business Class model within Europe for 30+ years now. Only in Europe nobody kicks up a fuss that the seat isn't substantially more opulent or offering significantly more legroom than Economy to a degree that the airlines are forced to reconsider the model. People are still stumping up the cash fares after all this time so something about it is clearly working.
Mar 31, 2022, 5:12 am
#28
Join Date: May 2003
Location: TLL
Programs: OZ Diamond, BA Gold, Bonvoy Ambassador, HH Gold
Posts: 4,412
I am earnestly asking this, because I don't know - does any other major European airline do this in case of irregular operations? I don't think I've heard of any, but welcome to be corrected.
Mar 31, 2022, 5:18 am
#29
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,596
I've never understood the European model. Is there any other region of the world where the airlines do this? Even here in Japan, where domestic flights are shorter than many European routes, ANA's premium cabin has wide seats with 50 inches of pitch. (Better even than US domestic F, which is also better than European business class.)
Mar 31, 2022, 5:31 am
#30
Join Date: Nov 2004
Programs: BA GGL, LH FTL
Posts: 3,578
What really triggers me with BA is the "to help as many people as possible" statement, which basically says you're a horrible person if you disagree with our strategy. No. This is because of BA's commercial decision not to invest in redundant IT systems and sufficient staffing levels. They caused this, they should take ownership, and 10k Avios is not good enough.