DYKWIA

It depends on whether the flight was cancelled or whether it was "cancelled".

Previously, BA were trying to get around their EC261 obligations by saying a flight was cancelled, but still running the flight with exactly the same flight number and departure time, but on a different plane type.

SK AAR

Maybe, but I seriously doubt that this was the situation here. I believe the OP would have found out and reported in here if the flight was actually operated regardless of the cancellation notice received.

SK AAR

If the pax accepts to be rebooked to a flight albeit in a lower booking class, there is no downgrade situation. I have yet to hear of any pax that is involuntarily rebooked and if the pax prefers so it is possible to cancel/get a full refund or be rebooked to future date where F is available - often BA is even is prepared to reroute the pax to/via another F destination. BUT if the pax for convenience prefers to take the (direct) flight in a lower booking class, it has nothing to do with downgrade; the pax traveled as accepted and (re)booked and only fare diference is due.

corporate-wage-slave

The actual Regulation wording talks in terms of the airline "placing" someone ina lower cabin. If there no higher cabin available then the passenger hasn't got a choice other than not to fly. So the sequence of events is fairly important, but if BA says "do you accept this change from First to CW" then on three grounds this does not get them out of EC261/Mennens. The first ground is that this is the airline's set of action - it's not as though BA doesn't have aircraft with First, it's BA's choice not to run them. Secondly there is a separate provision in the Regulation which prohbits an airline from making passengers sign away their EC261 entitlements. Finally - and this is my personal view as someone who is not a lawyer - the Consumer Rights Act militates against unbalanced contactural rights. So here BA is not allowing a full refund[*] and is also narrowing down the options open to the consumer. Clearly if the customer takes advantage of the situation to rebook something completely different then that's a different matter, so if a solution involves accepting CW but switching flights or dropping a connecting sector then BA have a much stronger, perhaps overwhelming, argument.
[*] I can see a lot of the recent queries related to First to CW using Avios in some form - from a process point of view people need to know this is going to continue to happen, "maybe bookings" applies here too. But if it is an Avios booking BA have an easy way out if they were to offer a full refund of the measly redeposit fee rather than an FTV, they would save themselves a lot of hassle and strengthen their arguments. Pre-pandemic BA were absolutely fine to offer a full refund because they knew that the seats would be filled up anyway. They dropped this for tactical / financial / policy reasons so that gives the customer stronger arguments now.

rjn21

I just received BA's directions questionnaire for my MCOL re EC261 reimbursement, following a downgrade with a GUF applied.

BA have declined mediation (doesn't bother me, although, I was willing to engage in a constructive manner).

BA have requested Uxbridge court as a venue. We'll see how that plays out, my understanding of the CPRs is the court venue is my choice.

They appear to want to go to court.

samgw

Hi there, just looking for some advice. Tried to keep this post to relevant facts only.

On Friday I was due to fly from EDI to Bologna via LHR but unfortunately was delayed arriving into LHR which meant I could not connect to the BLQ flight. The delay was firstly caused by a late arriving aircraft to EDI which was then delayed further “waiting for engineering paperwork”. The flight to BLQ was scheduled to arrive in at 1810

At the rebooking desk at T5 BA said they had booked me to BLQ via CDG on Air France arriving at 2340. I refused this and instead asked to fly to Venice which arrived at 2014, I then hired a car at my cost arriving into BLQ at 2240.

Am I entitled to the £350 compensation as my arrival was delayed over 3hrs on a journey of over 1500km?

corporate-wage-slave

From the details provided, I would say yes. In the ideal world BA would offer to refund you the car hire and a few Avios and I guess you would be happy with that. However BA won't be doing that, and since BA did offer some sort of option, then you are on slightly sticky ground here. But only slightly. So I think you should just claim the £350 - there was no solution BA presented that would get you into BLQ within 3 hours. I suspect BA will turn this down on one of two grounds, namely that you rebooked yourself or that the circumstances were somehow extraordinary. So expect to take it to CEDR and I would give you a good chance of success at that level. If BA does turn you down, don't engage further, just ask for confirmation that they won't be reviewing the matter further.

shadowline

I haven't flown yet, but have had a invol downgrade from F to CW to and from DXB. I've just been doing some rough maths on the 75% compensation, is my thinking correct?

2 pax, using a 2-4-1. So, total for the two pax is;

Option 1
LHR-DXB
Paid £729.28 + 68k Avios
75% of this is £546.96 + 51k Avios
At 1.6p per Avios, that's £546.96 + £816.00 = £1362.96

DXB-LHR
Paid £370.20 + 68k Avios
75% of this is £277.65 + 51k Avios
At 1.6p per Avios, that's £277.65 + £816.00 = £1093.65

Is this correct? This is what I've actually paid, but this ascribes zero value to the 2-4-1. If I was to include the 'value' of the 2-4-1, then the calculations would be;

Option 2
LHR-DXB
Paid £729.28 + 136k Avios
75% of this is £546.96 + 102k Avios
At 1.6p per Avios, that's £546.96 + £1632.00 = £2178.96

DXB-LHR
Paid £370.20 + 136k Avios
75% of this is £277.65 + 102k Avios
At 1.6p per Avios, that's £277.65 + £1632.00 = £1909.65

firstlight

I'd say you'd be lucky valuing avios at 1.6p and BA would probably say you have had the companion voucher value by flying in CW. But I and others would be interested to see how much you get offered !

corporate-wage-slave

Indeed BA's stance will be that the Companion Voucher was fully used, your argument doubtless will be that you would not have used the CV this way if all options had been open to you. However you should go for the highest plausible claim since a district judge can add anything to your claim, but can reduce it if necessary. You just don't want to over-egg it so much that you appear to be trying it on. So make sure 1.6p is the realistic price currently on offer. You could of course make it clear in the claim that while MCOL forces a monetary value, you would be fine to accept the restoration of the CV and actual Avios redeposit if BA wants to negotiate a settlement in that area, that would seem to me to be a reasonable position.

If you are going CEDR then you don't need to spend too long on this, they will know the set-up and can award Avios.

PlaneSpeaking

My understanding is such that CEDR do not award Avios. I had the identical involuntary downgrade issue (F to CW) but just back from DXB - outbound was fine. CEDR took 6 months but awarded 1.6p per Avios including the value of the 241 which absolutely DOES have a value. It’s 75% of the Avios per affected leg. You won’t get any of the taxes back as they’re the same for CW as for First. Do not make any claim until after you’ve flown. Good luck.

shadowline

Thanks all - definitely not trying to take the proverbial with my calculations, but my extremely limited understanding was that we would be due back 75% of the fare paid, which would include the taxes paid.

In terms of 1.6p valuation - this is what BA sell their Avios for, and as MCOL can't award Avios so I can't see a way for me to be "made whole" in any other way. As @corporate-wage-slave has suggested, I think I will offer acceptance of an Avios settlement.

corporate-wage-slave

Depends on the "taxes". Airline surcharges you should be able to claim at 75%, APD you can't have back. See the Mennens rule in the wiki.

PlaneSpeaking

No worries but BA will NOT offer you 75% Avios - despite all your protestations, quotes of 261 and the precedents of many before you, they will do their best to simply offer you the difference between F and J and they will say the 241 has no value. If you want what’s due to you, expect the worst from them and then go to CEDR who will approve your claim of 1.6p per Avios, including the 241 but will reject your claim for taxes paid. You must claim for the 241 and spell it out at the time of your claim as if it were the same number of Avios for this as the paid-for Avios ticket. It will take a good few months but stick to your guns and you’ll get there. Please note, you’ll need a “final decision” note from BA before you can go to CEDR. Good luck.

Erwin10

Does anyone know what your rights are when British Airways cancels a return flight, and you want to change it to a one-way flight due to outbound flight being unsuitable? Are you able to get your outbound flight refunded, while keeping your inbound flight? Offered flight would leave 7 hours later than planned, which really is unsuitable planning wise for a weekend trip.