flyuk

The issue is that there are a lot of people who *only* look at the carbon impact of the trip to New York, not the carbon benefit of millions of people having their heart strings pulled at to change their lifestyle. I suspect most of the ill will comes from guilt rather than the actual carbon impact though.

Carbon offsetting is just an obviously ill-fitting plaster over a problem so large it'll have an insignificant effect. Even if every single person on the planet were to offset their travel it wouldn't be enough to stop the damage we are doing because offsetting isn't actually that effective in the short term, and questionable in the mid-long term.

alvinlwh

Maybe you are right in your numbers, but how many out of the "tourists" number you quoted are actually people who, like myself, is actually visiting my in-laws, for example? I am not East Malaysian BTW so will count as a "visitor". A fair few I think as many East Malaysians live and work elsewhere. Most of my brother-in-laws live and work outside East Malaysia with partners from elsewhere, even a West Malaysian going to East Malaysia is counted as a "visitor" due to their independent immigration system. Also, how many of those are actually eco-tourists instead of tourists who spend all of their time on the beach resorts?

The answer is I don't really know, but word on the ground (from my in-laws) is "not that much" to "none" in the mid sized town they are in. Eco-tourists concentrate in a few areas, not spreading the wealth through the states, so other people will do something else to make their money. Also, how significant is their spendings? It could be considerable as you said, but only to a selected few people and areas.

And here is the interesting true story I heard, an Orang Asli family made so much money from eco-tourists that they got a 4x4, moved to a modern house with a/c, etc, started a business that make use of their jungle knowledge to clear the land for oil palm! My only conclusion is if the locals are willing to exploit their own land, what can we, sitting in the west, do about it? It is their land, their birth rights after all.

Last year, when I was visiting, my wife went to a farm that she used to play at when she was young. It was not there anymore. The farmer/landowner had cleared it all for oil palm because of the greater income it generate. And he now have a shiney 4x4 instead of the rusty scooter he used to ferry his whole family on.

The same with Indonesia, their land, their rules. What can we do? Educate them? All the people can see is they want to better their life, get that 4x4 so that they no longer need to go around on a rusty bicycle.

We in the west see a pretty picture with all the nice theories. However, things are just not the same on the ground.

alvinlwh

Her team is now spinning their return trip as "training", did they employ Tony Blair's spin doctor?

The problem with criticising her is her supporters will claim that she is being bullied for her asperger and autism.

Sam Bee

I agree. If anywhere was going to make eco-tourism a success, then Sabah stands the best chance. SAGA holidays used to charter 100 seats every Monday on MH (they may still?) for UK clients to see the Orang Utans, Sepilok can sadly feel like a zoo, but there is serious money going into eco-tourism industry into Malaysia.

And also you're right about it being their homeland (we may not like it, but.. - Jair Bolsonaro's comments about the rainforests of Brazil today are truly sad, but we can't complain about what sovereign nations do).

Sadly it's what's happening in Indonesia that makes me weep. Yet there is considerable political anger in Indonesia about UK organisations trying to reduce a reliance on Palm Oil, but it's the only way - to reduce the demand and make eco-tourism more profitable.

alvinlwh

You are right, 1gt of CO2 in just one event, over 2 years' worth of CO2 produced by the UK.

callum9999

You remind me of the people who throw hissy fits because someone called them racist when they were just "pointing out some facts" about black people. Much like with those people, if you're being accused of bullying her, then it's most likely because you're bullying her.

A nice little story you've spun there, but you seem to be conveniently ignoring the fact that she didn't charter the boat... (Even the vile rag you presumably heard that from acknowledged that). The boat was going anyway and they offered her a space. They aren't "her team" and have virtually nothing to do with her at all. Do you refer to the BA cabin crew as your team after each flight, and demand they follow your principles in their own time?

It's somewhat ironic that the extreme vitriol and sheer arrogance of this thread is what has caused me to break my decision to stop posting here, which was itself taken because I saw a very unpleasant "undercurrent" throughout the place (sadly now confirmed). Wonder how long I'll last this time!

(I should probably point out that while I was correcting your post in particular, my general dismay is aimed at "the group" and not you personally!)

BAW2

I think that Greta is an inspiration – It would be great to meet her when I’m back from holiday.

Well, when I say holiday, I mean a six-day trip taking in Oslo, Heathrow, Vegas, Boston, Vegas, Boston, San Francisco, Austin and Heathrow. 😊



I’m not a frequent flyer, but enjoy reading about the mileage runs on here, keep it up!

T8191

I’m really not sure what I’m supposed to do, apart from not travelling any more. We are certainly not going vegan!

We do our best, by our opinion. Electric car, low energy lighting, recycle vigorously, have about 1/2 acre of woodland in the garden. But our personal impact is trivial, compared with major industries (OK, including airlines) and deforestation highlighted upthread. The proverbial drop in the ocean, even if multiplied by 25% of the planet’s population, isn’t going to compensate for the big polluters.

kanderson1965

I think eventually you get to an age where you realise that there is nothing you can do to change things so there is no point bothering to try.

When I was younger, I thought I could make a difference to the world, however life experience has taught me that this is not the case.

I think this young lady will eventually realise that she is just banging her head against a wall and will hopefully just enjoy life rather than trying to achieve the impossible.

Jagboi

In a way I find Greta shocking and sad at the same time. I've travelled a bit and been to the high Canadian Arctic Islands and seen the remains of petrified forests that once grew there. Now the temperature only rises above freezing for approximately 3 weeks a year. The joke up there is that summer is the first Wednesday in August. To the west of me, in the mountains are the fossilized remains of coral reefs, yet now the nearest coral is thousands of miles south. The earth has seen massive swings in it's temperature over time, the geologic and fossil records confirm that the earth has been both much warmer and cooler than it is now. All predating humans and without their influence.

The earth's inner processes and what regulates it's temperature are not well understood, so I think it is the height of human hubris to arrogantly assume that we can control the plant, and indeed the universe if the theory of solar flares and sunspots affecting climate is correct. Maybe 16 year olds think they can control the planet, age and education shows you can't.

CKBA

Whilst this may be true, it totally ignores continental drift (which largely explains things tropical in the polar regions) as well as the climate during the existence of humankind on the surface of the Earth (i.e. what is happening now is much shorter than 'geological' time) (oh - and please treat the 'Earth' with respect - it's a name not a lump of soil!). Yes, there are lots of factors that control our climate, but we are an additional factor that is piercing the envelope of our very existence.

For me, I am concerned and try to do as much as possible to avoid necessary carbon-usage: we have geothermal heating/cooling, have all LED lighting, car-share, and are pretty much vegan now. We do travel quite a bit, but we see that as inevitable as Mrs CKBA and I live in the US, our daughters in the UK. In addition, I have many overseas meetings (which unfortunately are climate-related!). Ultimately, many (not all) of the FFs here will be business travellers who will no doubt pass on any FF tax to their customers: should we also tax FCU's (frequent car users) in the same way?

konagirl2

The point is that all of those major industries, all of the energy extraction, all of the deforestation, is being done by humanity for humanity - to build and make our homes, infrastructure and goods, to power our transport, heat and cool our homes, to make space for food production. The problem is that most of these activities are not necessary to continue human society. But they are necessary to maintain the lifestyles we in the 'developed' world have become accustomed to very cheaply. And the affordability of these nice things (nice food, air conditioning, personal point-to-point transport, etc) is down to the propagation and continuation of certain economic structures that perpetuate the 'developed' world at the top of the ladder. We are extremely wasteful, with natural resources, energy, everything. So yours, and my, personal impact is of paramount importance. Because we are the consumers.

I have heard this argument time and again, that the individual has no power. And it is true that power comes in the collective, especially where political change is needed (politicians care about being elected, so they aim towards what a dominant part of society wants). But when you look a purchasing power there is a very clear case that you don't need a majority, or even a small minority - just 1% of the total population buying certain goods creates a market - see the plethora of vegan fast-food that has emerged in the last 5 years. Where and how you spend your money is your power.

HighwayToHEL

I'm probably slow to the party but I see the Beeb has this also. https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49808258

T8191

I shall contribute to the CO2 savings by probably dying within the next 10 years, so please be grateful for my contribution ... at great personal inconvenience.

Good luck to the younger generations who will struggle with the reality, and theory, of what may [or may not] happen.

wilsnunn

And even the Malaysian PM wants to increase the sale of palm oil and sees Brexit as such an opportunity!

Taken from the FT (https://www.ft.com/content/fd1b1a96-...296ca66511c9):
Edit: I hope I have satisfied the requirements to post a news article link, if not then. I am happy to make ammendments.