Bohinjska Bistrica

And ramping up taxes in the UK will lead to wider adoption of such behaviour as passengers seek to avoid punitive fares, creating a perverse incentive.

alvinlwh

Not quite sure what you mean but here is the headline.

Greta Thunberg's two-week trip across Atlantic in 'zero-carbon yacht' may generate more emissions than it saves as two of the crew have to FLY to New York to bring the boat back to Europe

firstlight

It's an interesting discussion. What's your definition of 'excessive' business travel? Who decides? I'm travelling across the atlantic 12 times a year. My employer deems that as necessary travel. But to some that is excessive, to others that may be a fraction of what they do.

I earn half my avios and tier points through leisure travel. Will there be separate 'business' avios and 'holiday' avios.

Any tax in this area is tricky to implement. Is the tax going to be paid on earning avios or spending them?

If the former, what about when points expire, is the tax paid returned? If the latter what about the issue of retrospective taxation on points earned several years back before any new regime and stashed for retirement?

PS HMRC don't tax avios because you don't own them, they have a notional value (with no cash equivalent) imputed by the airline which can remove them from you at a whim.

Who values them? The estimated value of an avios can be anything from 0.1p to about 8p (first class redemption using a companion voucher). Will Amex vouchers then have a value too?

Is lounge access which saves my employer money on subsistence (meals at the airport) then to become a taxable benefit as well ? What is the taxable value of a meal in BA business class?

alvinlwh

Not forgetting Avios can also be earned through shopping or converting Tesco points or credit card spending or hotel bookings....

PAL62V

Some years back (I think in the 90s) Australia tried taxing FF points when earned on company business. They were treated as a perk, much like a company car. I don't remember it being very successful and I am not sure whether it still happens.

flyuk

"I'm all for saving the planet, unless it affects my lifestyle or income, then it's someone else's problem"

However staged Greta's speech was, it was mostly true. We are consuming at a rate that is unsustainable, and nobody is ready to do anything about it at the moment.

If high enough, FF tax might stop me from flying as much as I might not be able to afford it, simple as that. Businesses might actually look to use technology more, stopping people from traveling thousands of miles when a teleconference or email would suffice.

I'd rather there was a carbon tax, which is directly related to the cost of removing carbon from the environment. Put 10 tons in? Then pay to have 10 tons taken out. It'll drive scrubbing technology, and be better than often pointless tree planting. Most carbon offsetting is just helping someone appease their own conscience or make their company look like they care about the environment. Carbon neutral companies are rarely truly carbon neutral.

Sam Bee

Of course she's not expecting you to. The same way that as a 16 year old, i'm sure you were rebelling against the ruling generation to a degree (more relevant perhaps to the North Americans on here) - Greta is not doing this to impact you personally, but to bring together her own generation and make change - after all it IS scientific consensus that humans are causing global warming. She's not targetting you, or the typical frequent flyer (white, male, over 40) yet it's these people that appear to be most threatened and have been incredibly bitter. Some of the responses have been so nasty. Imagine being that threatened by a 16 year old climate activist?

I'm a massive hypocrit - my 13 year old daughter bunked school the same day I had a LBA-LHR flight. What an arse I am (what an crazy situation it is when it's the cheapest option).

Can't possibly have any argument with frequent flyers, or those who have 5 holidays, or those that seek to travel the world. But I would have no issue with a BAEC Frequent Flyer Programme that removes the incentive to fly unnecessarily, I find it crazy that people are encouraged to fly multiple sectors they otherwise wouldn't purely to have access to a private room where they can drink champagne. A tax on frequent flyers is anti-business, but i'd like to see BAEC move to a revenue based programme, even if it would impact me. A chat with a friend at Norwegian focussed on how other airlines call BAEC the 'crack of frequent flyer programmes' - and I agree - i'm incredulous when I see what some people will do, and where they will go, to get their TP's & status, definitely defies logic at some points.

Fortunately the cost of fuel is vastly improving the impact of aircraft - I'm a great optimist is hoping that improved rail transportation will mean the flights from CWL, LBA & MAN to LON in last couple of years are completely unnecessary. And with the changes in technology, i'm hopeful for electric powered aircraft in my lifetime. Why not? If Greta is inspiring the next generation of scientists and frequent flyers and leaders, then all power to her.

TedToToe

I absolutely agree with everything you say; I’m not an advocate of putting a value on FFP benefits. My guess is, HMRC will have taken more than a cursory look and decided against it. At the end of the day, APD is simple to implement and collect and, of course, it can be said that business travellers pay more because they are more likely to be in F or J.

Markie

It seems to be aimed at those who have second homes and visit them frequently. It's a tax to make the middle class feel like it's doing something.

alvinlwh

She is not targeting any of us here? May I point you to another set of tree huggers, M&H, telling us to cut our carbon emissions while taking 4 private jet rides in just 2 weeks. Do as we say but not as we do?

Sam Bee

The only M&H I know make cricket bats, so sorry, don't have a clue what you're talking about. But don't feel threatened by Greta, you'll be able to do whatever you're currently doing for as long as you want.

TedToToe

Meghan+Harry?

nanyang

Well, from my perspective the APD in the UK is already extremely high. It certainly is an incentive not to visit the UK. Then again, these sort of initiatives should at least have a negative impact on the economy and employment - so if that is the goal, it totally makes sense.

I have at best a vague idea of who Greta Thunberg is, but Theodore Dalrymple's blog post is most helpful:
https://newenglishreview.org/custpage.cfm?sec_id=189806

"The exaggerated respect in the world, or at least in Europe, with which little Greta’s pronouncements have been received will, I hope, be a matter of wonder to future generations (if any). She has addressed not only crowds but parliaments, where she has been accorded a mixed status of guru and performing animal—guru because she has uttered the main tenets of a powerful doxa that so many thirst to believe in any case, and performing animal because she is so young to perform so unexpectedly well."

firstlight

5 holidays a year is for lightweights 😁...

...And I remember when people would fight for their greenshield stamps, stick them in the savings books and then redeem them for household items. Plus ca change.

13901

I think she repeated ad nauseam to "listen to the science", not to what she says or does, and the science is pretty clear: CO2 emissions are rising, haven't plateau'd yet, transportation is one key contributing factor. Hard to say this isn't the truth.

Here are Europe's data: https://www.eea.europa.eu/data-and-m...6/assessment-2