Y Pax upgraded by BA staff
Aug 29, 2019, 10:38 am
#121
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It's interesting that BA's reaction was not "There was nothing wrong with this. The crew are entitled to move whoever they like to any empty seats. You did not need to flag to us something that was perfectly normal and acceptable."
Aug 29, 2019, 10:43 am
#122
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: UK
Programs: Lemonia. Best Greek ever.
Posts: 2,275
Er, some major thread drift here.
Pilots are not the same as Captains.
Junior pilots at BA are paid well under 100k.
Senior Training Captains on L/H can earn 200k.
Can we get back to comments on the OPs post, rather than slag off crew for when they legitimately use one of the few perks that they get?
Pilots are not the same as Captains.
Junior pilots at BA are paid well under 100k.
Senior Training Captains on L/H can earn 200k.
Can we get back to comments on the OPs post, rather than slag off crew for when they legitimately use one of the few perks that they get?
Aug 29, 2019, 2:33 pm
#123
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine
Programs: Mucci, BA Gold, TK Elite, HHonors Lifetime Diamond
Posts: 7,691
I am not sad that you got 20,000 Avios, as you say. I am actually glad for you that you did - I don't see anything wrong with people getting things they did not expect and should not get under 'normal' circumstances.
I know that it is all about one's personal attitude to a particular situation, and this is what this whole thread is about. I just don't understand why you needed to talk to BA in the first place, unless you believed that a seat in the FClub cabin belonged to you. After all, there could have been the entire plane of GCHs who could have 'claimed' a seat there, and unless you were on this forum you'd have had no idea how seats were even allocated in that cabin.
You had no standing to complain as you suffered no injury and BA did not have to right any wrongs as the airline did not wrong you in any way. The only thing you achieved is probably getting the cabin crew in trouble for giving someone else what you thought was rightfully yours on an unknown basis and then getting cabin crew think twice about what they're doing. So, when cabin crew want to do something nice for you personally like, maybe, put you in a better seat or bring you a glass of champagne or do something else for you that you normally should not get, they would not because they'd be afraid that someone else may complain that they did not get it but you got it.
Something does not add up in that story as far as I'm concerned. BA did not do anything wrong to Jed. Airlines do not comment about their employees and about their inner processes. I do not see a reason why BA would reply with a confirmation that cabin crew did something wrong as the 'something wrong' was done to BA (only if BA views it that way), not the passenger. BA should have, but they would not have, replied something like 'Thank you for sharing your concern. May we ask you what in our promise to carry you in the seat you booked led you to believe that you were entitled to travel in a First class cabin that is used as CW on that route?'
I just don't understand why BA would admit that cabin crew did something wrong when the 'wrong' did not concern the passenger. We get so many 'why-I-was-not-upgraded-but-someone-else-was' questions that if airlines started to reply to all of them and explain it to all of them it would create even more confusion.
Again, airlines do not comment on what's between them and cabin crew. So, yes, the response is interesting, but not in the way you implied. BA had absolutely no reason to admit or deny whether cabin crew did anything wrong. It's not like AA EXPs expect to get a confirmation that they were or were not passed over for a complimentary upgrade. It was a simple 'you-sat-in-your-assigned-seat' situation. An average BA passenger would not know what is 'perfectly normal and acceptable' when people are moved around within the cabin or between the cabins.
Last edited by Andriyko; Aug 29, 2019 at 3:11 pm Reason: I read Jed's post wrong.
Aug 29, 2019, 2:53 pm
#124
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: UK
Programs: BA Gold, AA 1MM lifetime gold, Starwood gold, Marriott Gold Elite
Posts: 719
I think that on this forum, too much emphasis is placed on ‘the crew can do what they like’. They can’t, unless within operational reason. That is the whole point of this thread.
Aug 29, 2019, 2:54 pm
#125
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
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And yet BA provided Jed with compensation. If BA thought that absolutely nothing untoward had happened, that would be an unusual course to take.
Aug 29, 2019, 3:02 pm
#126
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: UK
Programs: BA Gold, AA 1MM lifetime gold, Starwood gold, Marriott Gold Elite
Posts: 719
I am not sad that you got 20,000 Avios, as you say. I am actually glad for you that you did - I don't see anything wrong with people getting things they did not expect and should not get under 'normal' circumstances.
I know that it is all about one's personal attitude to a particular situation, and this is what this whole thread is about. I just don't understand why you needed to talk to BA in the first place, unless you believed that a seat in the FClub cabin belonged to you. After all, there could have been the entire plane of GCHs who could have 'claimed' a seat there, and unless you were on this forum you'd have had no idea how seats were even allocated in that cabin.
You had no standing to complain as you suffered no injury and BA did not have to right any wrongs as the airline did not wrong you in any way. The only thing you achieved is probably getting the cabin crew in trouble for giving someone else what you thought was rightfully yours on an unknown basis and then getting cabin crew think twice about what they're doing. So, when cabin crew want to do something nice for you personally like, maybe, put you in a better seat or bring you a glass of champagne or do something else for you that you normally should not get, they would not because they'd be afraid that someone else may complain that they did not get it but you got it.
It's interesting that there was a reaction at all.
Something does not add up in that story as far as I'm concerned. BA did not do anything wrong to Jed. Airlines do not comment about their employees and about their inner processes. I do not see a reason why BA would reply with a confirmation that cabin crew did something wrong as the 'something wrong' was done to BA (only if BA views it that way), not the passenger. BA should have, but they would not have, replied something like 'Thank you for sharing your concern. May we ask you what in our promise to carry you in the seat you booked led you to believe that you were entitled to travel in a First class cabin that is used as CW on that route?'
I just don't understand why BA would admit that cabin crew did something wrong when the 'wrong' did not concern the passenger. We get so many 'why-I-was-not-upgraded-but-someone-else-was' questions that if airlines started to reply to all of them and explain it to all of them it would create even more confusion. I just find the whole response hard to believe, especially the offer of an upgrade to F on the next flight. People who get downgraded from F to CW don't tell us often that they are promised a service recovery upgrade on the next flight, but in a situation when there is no service failure a service recovery like that seems like too much. And I am sorry for saying that out loud.
Again, airlines do not comment on what's between them and cabin crew. So, yes, the response is interesting, but not in the way you implied. BA had absolutely no reason to admit or deny whether cabin crew did anything wrong. It's not like AA EXPs expect to get a confirmation that they were or were not passed over for a complimentary upgrade. It was a simple 'you-sat-in-your-assigned-seat' situation. An average BA passenger would not know what is 'perfectly normal and acceptable' when people are moved around within the cabin or between the cabins.
I know that it is all about one's personal attitude to a particular situation, and this is what this whole thread is about. I just don't understand why you needed to talk to BA in the first place, unless you believed that a seat in the FClub cabin belonged to you. After all, there could have been the entire plane of GCHs who could have 'claimed' a seat there, and unless you were on this forum you'd have had no idea how seats were even allocated in that cabin.
You had no standing to complain as you suffered no injury and BA did not have to right any wrongs as the airline did not wrong you in any way. The only thing you achieved is probably getting the cabin crew in trouble for giving someone else what you thought was rightfully yours on an unknown basis and then getting cabin crew think twice about what they're doing. So, when cabin crew want to do something nice for you personally like, maybe, put you in a better seat or bring you a glass of champagne or do something else for you that you normally should not get, they would not because they'd be afraid that someone else may complain that they did not get it but you got it.
It's interesting that there was a reaction at all.
Something does not add up in that story as far as I'm concerned. BA did not do anything wrong to Jed. Airlines do not comment about their employees and about their inner processes. I do not see a reason why BA would reply with a confirmation that cabin crew did something wrong as the 'something wrong' was done to BA (only if BA views it that way), not the passenger. BA should have, but they would not have, replied something like 'Thank you for sharing your concern. May we ask you what in our promise to carry you in the seat you booked led you to believe that you were entitled to travel in a First class cabin that is used as CW on that route?'
I just don't understand why BA would admit that cabin crew did something wrong when the 'wrong' did not concern the passenger. We get so many 'why-I-was-not-upgraded-but-someone-else-was' questions that if airlines started to reply to all of them and explain it to all of them it would create even more confusion. I just find the whole response hard to believe, especially the offer of an upgrade to F on the next flight. People who get downgraded from F to CW don't tell us often that they are promised a service recovery upgrade on the next flight, but in a situation when there is no service failure a service recovery like that seems like too much. And I am sorry for saying that out loud.
Again, airlines do not comment on what's between them and cabin crew. So, yes, the response is interesting, but not in the way you implied. BA had absolutely no reason to admit or deny whether cabin crew did anything wrong. It's not like AA EXPs expect to get a confirmation that they were or were not passed over for a complimentary upgrade. It was a simple 'you-sat-in-your-assigned-seat' situation. An average BA passenger would not know what is 'perfectly normal and acceptable' when people are moved around within the cabin or between the cabins.
Aug 29, 2019, 3:09 pm
#127
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine
Programs: Mucci, BA Gold, TK Elite, HHonors Lifetime Diamond
Posts: 7,691
I sincerely apologize for my mistake. The words 'confirmed upgrade' got me the wrong idea, I guess. I should have read the sentence in its entirety rather than focus on those two words. I am sorry.
Aug 29, 2019, 4:13 pm
#129
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine
Programs: Mucci, BA Gold, TK Elite, HHonors Lifetime Diamond
Posts: 7,691
What puzzles me is that people are looking for information that they have no right to know to be shared with them in the first place. People have no sure way of knowing what really happened, but yet they question the airline's (the cabin crew's) decisions. And even if, within the context of this thread, the issue is about there being no operational reasons (again, with no way of knowing that) of moving two passengers to a higher cabin, what is the purpose of contacting the airline - to complain about something the passenger did not get when they thought they deserved it or alerting the airline of what the crew did wrong in their opinion? If it's the latter, what is the point? To punish the crew for prioritizing the 'wrong' passenger over oneself? That would kill any remaining discretion that people cherish here (but only, as it appears, when it's exercised towards them).
I don't think we should police, or make judgments about, what is or what is not an operational reason. Given the wealth of information we get here from those who live on airplanes as passengers or cabin/flight crew, we may get an impression that we know better, but we don't. Why don't we leave the judgment part to those who are empowered by the airline to make the call? And if they do not make that call according to the airline's rules, In our opinion, as long as we are not affected and as long as we're not privy as to what is actually going on, why don't we let the airline make its own judgment? After all, we all want for nice things to happen to us. Why can't we be happy with other people having them as well?
Last edited by Andriyko; Aug 29, 2019 at 4:25 pm
Aug 29, 2019, 5:27 pm
#131
Join Date: Aug 2019
Programs: BAEC Silver
Posts: 5
This is a tough one that comes up a lot when chatting with fellow CSM/CSD’s
i fully understand why the OP would be disgruntled at seeing the crew seemingly upgrade people for no reason.
In reality I would not be upgrading people for no reason.... there will be a multitude of scenarios that this would happen! Employee travel, onboard service recovery the list goes on and on
on MY flights, discretion is always key (where possible) and I am very selective of where they are placed. For example not next to a frequent flier etc
as stated earlier in the thread, in a lot of situations it is industry perks/common practise and rightly so we will look after fellow employees/friends & family
do I have to be mindful and respectful of customers who have paid large ticket prices for a premium cabin - Absolutely
as the ‘Silver tie’ wearer onboard do I have to justify or explain myself - to be blunt NO.
My customers will always come first and as someone who does not use employee discount very often (Silver EC who flies Club full fare) I get that on this flight it was too brazen to march people into club, but the Senior did nothing out of his/her remit onboard and I am somewhat surprised that compensation was offered regardless of EC status
i fully understand why the OP would be disgruntled at seeing the crew seemingly upgrade people for no reason.
In reality I would not be upgrading people for no reason.... there will be a multitude of scenarios that this would happen! Employee travel, onboard service recovery the list goes on and on
on MY flights, discretion is always key (where possible) and I am very selective of where they are placed. For example not next to a frequent flier etc
as stated earlier in the thread, in a lot of situations it is industry perks/common practise and rightly so we will look after fellow employees/friends & family
do I have to be mindful and respectful of customers who have paid large ticket prices for a premium cabin - Absolutely
as the ‘Silver tie’ wearer onboard do I have to justify or explain myself - to be blunt NO.
My customers will always come first and as someone who does not use employee discount very often (Silver EC who flies Club full fare) I get that on this flight it was too brazen to march people into club, but the Senior did nothing out of his/her remit onboard and I am somewhat surprised that compensation was offered regardless of EC status
Aug 30, 2019, 1:17 am
#133
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Programs: Mucci. Nothing else matters.
Posts: 38,644
Is this approved of by the company? If, for example, a hypothetical SCCM were to be told that their neighbour's sister-in-law and her family were on board in WT, having paid a deep discount economy fare, is it OK so far as the company is concerned for that SCCM to move them all to CW simply because there are some empty seats in the cabin?
Aug 30, 2019, 1:37 am
#134
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 47
I was chatting to a friend of mine about this, a doctor. She told me she (casually dressed, fairly young) was discreetly upgraded (not BA) after assisting with a medical emergency mid flight. As soon as she sat down in her new seat another pax apparently got very irate with cabin crew about this demanding to know why "children" were being upgraded. She tells me the CC snapped back to the man that she was a doctor etc... That soon shut him up but it did make my friend very uncomfortable. Frankly, it is not other pax job to police upgrades. And it wasn't my friend's job to justify her presence in the J cabin.
Aug 30, 2019, 6:11 am
#135
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,603
I have to disagree with you in this regard. It is not about the 'operational reason' per se,' but rather whether a particular poster thinks there was or was not an operational reason. And, it's not just about moving someone into a different cabin, but also about being denied lounge access due to overcapacity, or weather delays when the weather seems fine to the poster or things like that when something appears to be one way to the passenger but in reality it is something different.
What puzzles me is that people are looking for information that they have no right to know to be shared with them in the first place. People have no sure way of knowing what really happened, but yet they question the airline's (the cabin crew's) decisions. And even if, within the context of this thread, the issue is about there being no operational reasons (again, with no way of knowing that) of moving two passengers to a higher cabin, what is the purpose of contacting the airline - to complain about something the passenger did not get when they thought they deserved it or alerting the airline of what the crew did wrong in their opinion? If it's the latter, what is the point? To punish the crew for prioritizing the 'wrong' passenger over oneself? That would kill any remaining discretion that people cherish here (but only, as it appears, when it's exercised towards them).
I don't think we should police, or make judgments about, what is or what is not an operational reason. Given the wealth of information we get here from those who live on airplanes as passengers or cabin/flight crew, we may get an impression that we know better, but we don't. Why don't we leave the judgment part to those who are empowered by the airline to make the call? And if they do not make that call according to the airline's rules, In our opinion, as long as we are not affected and as long as we're not privy as to what is actually going on, why don't we let the airline make its own judgment? After all, we all want for nice things to happen to us. Why can't we be happy with other people having them as well?
What puzzles me is that people are looking for information that they have no right to know to be shared with them in the first place. People have no sure way of knowing what really happened, but yet they question the airline's (the cabin crew's) decisions. And even if, within the context of this thread, the issue is about there being no operational reasons (again, with no way of knowing that) of moving two passengers to a higher cabin, what is the purpose of contacting the airline - to complain about something the passenger did not get when they thought they deserved it or alerting the airline of what the crew did wrong in their opinion? If it's the latter, what is the point? To punish the crew for prioritizing the 'wrong' passenger over oneself? That would kill any remaining discretion that people cherish here (but only, as it appears, when it's exercised towards them).
I don't think we should police, or make judgments about, what is or what is not an operational reason. Given the wealth of information we get here from those who live on airplanes as passengers or cabin/flight crew, we may get an impression that we know better, but we don't. Why don't we leave the judgment part to those who are empowered by the airline to make the call? And if they do not make that call according to the airline's rules, In our opinion, as long as we are not affected and as long as we're not privy as to what is actually going on, why don't we let the airline make its own judgment? After all, we all want for nice things to happen to us. Why can't we be happy with other people having them as well?
Last edited by 1Aturnleft; Aug 30, 2019 at 6:35 am
