Is British Airways really just London Airways?
#16
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I guess BA have a reason for doing this [possibly just lack of slots at LHR], but the lower volumes are presumably reflecting the fact that if you have to connect anyway, why not save money via AMS/CDG...?
#17
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G
#18
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#19
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Or use the old air base at Soesterberg as a hub:
soesterberg hub network by Blackberryaddict, on Flickr
There might still be some Fokker F27 Friendships lying around to run the service
soesterberg hub network by Blackberryaddict, on Flickr
There might still be some Fokker F27 Friendships lying around to run the service
#20
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Oi oi saveloy. I thought the beer coaster (Original Poster) was having a bubble but he does have a point, us London based Bacardis have a much easier time of things than you Northerners and we all know you don't like putting your hands in your skies for that journey down to Heathrow:
On a serious note, I wonder whether it would be worth trying a mini hub at MAN. Presumably it could be run a bit like Gatters or LCY, i.e. with a focus on certain routes,and a hybrid LCC model? LH seems to manage it, and as far as I can tell AZ seem to have a presence at both LIN and FCO (although they are hardly a good benchmark for prudent decision making in the airline world).
On a serious note, I wonder whether it would be worth trying a mini hub at MAN. Presumably it could be run a bit like Gatters or LCY, i.e. with a focus on certain routes,and a hybrid LCC model? LH seems to manage it, and as far as I can tell AZ seem to have a presence at both LIN and FCO (although they are hardly a good benchmark for prudent decision making in the airline world).
#21
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#22
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Don’t forget that BA did its attempt at the regions, in 1999, in low cost carrier form. Go was sufficiently successful that BA made a large profit in a short timescale by selling to easyJet, but in the process I think it realised that LCC was the only way it would make the regions work for it, and this was always likely to be at the cost of fragmenting it’s own brand and product.
#23
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Going to AMS by train would be a little more awkward KL may serve Sheffield but it does not serve Groningen or Maastricht, which take roughly the same time to Amsterdam as Leeds to London. SEcondly, the capacity that KL puts on the route is quite limited since it is operated by ERJs, so I reckon total weekly capacity must be somewhere around 1300-1400 seats for BA versus 2000-2200 seats for KL so we are far from 3 times the capacity that some might have thought your 1 versus 3 comparison might suggest.
Let us face it. BA is not providing a public service. It is a commercial enterprise. It puts planes where the demand is. I suspect that if there was a huge reservoir of pent-up demand at respectable yields on LBA-LHR, there would be more services on the route.
Last edited by NickB; Jun 26, 2019 at 4:48 am
#24
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BA have invested in T5 and LHR slots, I just don't think they would look to change that, they still have a lot of 747's that need filling, only LHR can get that kind of traffic.
Personally I wouldn't mind the London centric policy if BA had genuine feeder flights from the regional airports to LHR, it's a market that the likes of KLM have had to themselves besides the token MAN,LBA & NCL routes. I mean KLM can make running 3 sometimes 4 flights a day from my local HUY to AMS pay, so surely their is business to be had with regionals.
Ive always assumed it because there isn't the runway capacity at LHR rather than commercial appetite.
Personally I wouldn't mind the London centric policy if BA had genuine feeder flights from the regional airports to LHR, it's a market that the likes of KLM have had to themselves besides the token MAN,LBA & NCL routes. I mean KLM can make running 3 sometimes 4 flights a day from my local HUY to AMS pay, so surely their is business to be had with regionals.
Ive always assumed it because there isn't the runway capacity at LHR rather than commercial appetite.
#25
Join Date: Jul 2014
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I don’t live in London, but I am thankful it only takes me c1 hour to LHR and 1 and a half to LGW. There has to be some benefit to living in the ‘over-priced, over-crowded’ south. 😁
#26
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Here's a similar thread from 2017. Post 19 has links to another 5 similar threads.
BA = London Airways?
BA = London Airways?
#27
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 26
Call me Bias, but it's interesting to read this continuous revolving topic.
It's true, BA can't operate from the regions profitably........ but MAN isn't a regional airport
Interesting points to note re other European carriers are all hub models is somewhat not true, Lufthansa is spread across 2 hubs, and weren't they still operating Berlin - JFK at one point?
Another point to note as VS is about to swallow Flybe and TCX if all goes well, they will have significant presence at all 3 Hubs, so the whole argument about you can't operate multi hubs is rubbish, clearly VS saw there is potential outside of London and ran with it.... I know they are not profitable now, but things seem like they are going in the right direction.
I think the argument is not so much it can't be done profitably (TCX as an airline is profitable) seems to me it's more BA's attitude of 'we can't be bothered since we are profitable out of London'. Although not exactly, wasn't it this kind of narrow minded attitude last time that cost them so dearly not to mention the humiliation of their downfall and Easyjet's rise?
It's true, BA can't operate from the regions profitably........ but MAN isn't a regional airport
Interesting points to note re other European carriers are all hub models is somewhat not true, Lufthansa is spread across 2 hubs, and weren't they still operating Berlin - JFK at one point?
Another point to note as VS is about to swallow Flybe and TCX if all goes well, they will have significant presence at all 3 Hubs, so the whole argument about you can't operate multi hubs is rubbish, clearly VS saw there is potential outside of London and ran with it.... I know they are not profitable now, but things seem like they are going in the right direction.
I think the argument is not so much it can't be done profitably (TCX as an airline is profitable) seems to me it's more BA's attitude of 'we can't be bothered since we are profitable out of London'. Although not exactly, wasn't it this kind of narrow minded attitude last time that cost them so dearly not to mention the humiliation of their downfall and Easyjet's rise?
#28
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BA have invested in T5 and LHR slots, I just don't think they would look to change that, they still have a lot of 747's that need filling, only LHR can get that kind of traffic.
Personally I wouldn't mind the London centric policy if BA had genuine feeder flights from the regional airports to LHR, it's a market that the likes of KLM have had to themselves besides the token MAN,LBA & NCL routes. I mean KLM can make running 3 sometimes 4 flights a day from my local HUY to AMS pay, so surely their is business to be had with regionals.
Ive always assumed it because there isn't the runway capacity at LHR rather than commercial appetite.
Personally I wouldn't mind the London centric policy if BA had genuine feeder flights from the regional airports to LHR, it's a market that the likes of KLM have had to themselves besides the token MAN,LBA & NCL routes. I mean KLM can make running 3 sometimes 4 flights a day from my local HUY to AMS pay, so surely their is business to be had with regionals.
Ive always assumed it because there isn't the runway capacity at LHR rather than commercial appetite.
#29
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,596
Don’t forget that BA did its attempt at the regions, in 1999, in low cost carrier form. Go was sufficiently successful that BA made a large profit in a short timescale by selling to easyJet, but in the process I think it realised that LCC was the only way it would make the regions work for it, and this was always likely to be at the cost of fragmenting it’s own brand and product.
#30
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I don't think that LH operated BER-JFK in the recent past (AIr Berlin did) but they did operate services from various regional airports until a few years ago. They then came to the conclusion that those services could not be operated profitably on a full service basis and therefore shifted all non-hub services to their low cost subsidiary, namely Germanwings.
Last edited by NickB; Jun 26, 2019 at 1:15 pm Reason: typo