Waterhorse

Yes, the two in the flight deck rule was introduced as a reaction to an uninformed and rather loud outcry in the press after the GermanWings crash. It was introduced by some regulators and companies to calm an ill informed public. There have been some well made points about private and public acts but a determined pilot can crash an aircraft even when another is set next to them. There are also risks of having an unqualified person on the flight deck, such as distraction etc. There is a crash axe in most flight decks, so you are now placing a potentially homicidal flight attendant in close proximity with an axe and opportunity to kill. Life is not 100% safe, in fact it is 100% fatal, no one is immortal, but this stuff merely calms the herd without materially increasing safety. It is pantomime not safety.

navylad

dddc

Having two pilots in the cockpit didn't stop a Korean Airways 747 cargo plane going down when the other crew were too afraid to challenge the captains decision. There have been other cases of that too.

Have you checked out what aircraft you are flying and its safety record? Have you found out where your meals are being catered from and found the incidence of food poisoning or death from eating contaminated food? Are you having chicken onboard from a US farm that has been washed in chlorine. Doesn't stop the bugs and the US has far worse incidence of death from this than the EU who have better welfare standards to start with so they don't need such practices. Have you checked your route to the airport to see how many deaths occur in traffic? Do you know if there will be anyone randomly shooting people on your way to the airport (The US has gun shootings all the time, so your area must be due for one ). Do you know who will be on the flight with you and even if they aren't going to be carrying a gun to hijack the plane, they could have the ebola virus or something else? Have you looked at the weather patterns and plotted a path for the plane to take that will avoid any serious turbulence that could kill you?

The list of items that could kill you on a your journey is endless. It doesn't happen normally. Stop worrying and sit back and enjoy the flight.

Starship73

lhrpete

Strange then that it's still the norm on Lufthansa.

Starship73

GCab

Others have commented on other aspects of this, but I find the use of statistics rather baffling.

Are you the sort of person who would put a lot of money on the casino table on, say, reds, just because there has been a run of blacks and a red is now 'due'? This is a complete misreading of the laws of probability.

Or conversely, do you think a pilot who is depressed is somehow more likely to commit suicide by aircraft if "it's been 4 or 5 years since the last one and that's about how frequent the other ones were, so it's probably time for my go now"?

Neither make sense.

RB211

While it is true that for probability each event is independent, statistics tells us that over enough events, each type of event (red, black) will occur about 50% of the time (assuming a 1:1 ratio, no "uncoloured" double zeroes for a roulette wheel, etc etc etc.)

So if there has been a long run of black, I would bet on red! It would be stupid not to. Many probabilistic game strategies are based on this!

rb211.

fruitcage

aerobus12

I am due to go on a transatlantic flight with a non-two-people-in-the-cockpit airline in a couple of weeks. I have developed a terrible fear of flying where I go online to read all about plane crashes and especially pilot suicides, which seem to be in fashion as of lately when it comes to plane crashes. I'm at this point strongly considering cancelling my upcoming flight.

It's just unbelievable to me how airlines have scrapped this rule. I'm determined to never go on anything but short flights with airlines that don't mandate two people in the cockpit at all times.

Remember - the American FAA, world leaders in flight safety, with all policies carefully considered after 9/11, have this rule in place. If the risk of a terrorist or other unsolicited persons entering the cockpit is so much greater without having a cabin crew member in the cockpit if a pilot needs a break, why would the FAA REQUIRE it? I can't see that American air companies complain about it. It seems to be a European sentiment, perhaps some pilots feel that their companies don't trust them and are in denial that a mentally ill pilot can crash a plane ("maybe elsewhere, but not at our company!"). It's perhaps even more surprising that Lufthansa, owners of the last suicidal pilot's Germanwings, was one of the first to scrap this rule! The door is still going to open twice if the pilot is going to the rest room - why is the risk so much bigger if a cabin crew member comes in and out? Cabin crew go to the cockpit all the time to give food and drinks to the pilots, so the argument about disturbances is completely invalid.

There are very good reasons to have two people in the cockpit at all times.

(1) - If the remaining pilot is medically (physically) incapacitated, the cabin crew member can alert the other pilot to immediately return to the flight deck, and give medical attention straight away.

(2) - The pilot has someone physically present or talking to him/her. He/she is not alone. What is the risk of someone pushing the nose of the aircraft down while they're having a conversation with another person, or having one that watches them?

(3) - There is a very strong mental barrier to downing the aircraft in this situation. Who would commit suicide in front of a colleague, at least if they're not intending to kill that specific person?

corporate-wage-slave

Welcome to Flyertalk and welcome to the BA Forum aerobus12. I am not sure you are in the right forum for this, to be honest, and you won't get any informed details about BA's security arrangements here either. I would gently suggest that your position isn't reasonable, given the sheer number of successful, event-free flights every hour of every day, but I equally understand that fears tend not to run on reasonable lines. There won't be an easy answer to that, but nevertheless I hope you are able to find some accommodation that allows you to travel without fear. It can't be an easy situation for you. One thing BA does offer is a Fear of Flying course, and that would be an opportunity to talk directly to a senior BA captain, who may be in a position to put your mind at rest.

IAMORGAN

Welcome! I don’t agree with your analysis that this is some kind of trend / fashion and think, sometimes, in reacting to one event you can inadvertently cause other issues. I also don’t agree that the FAA is beyond reproach (787 MAX certification for example). However, fear is a real thing. All I will say is that you’re more likely to have a fatality on the way to the airport than on board a BA plane. I’m not really clear what the question is but it would be a shame to cancel based on this. Part of it is accepting that there are things in life you can’t control & learning to let go. In fact all the stress & worry is probably more damaging than the flight itself!

KARFA

Welcome to FT aerobus12!

I can't say I am remotely concerned about the issue you raise and spend a heck of a lot of time flying short haul and long haul with an airline which does not have such a rule. I think it's important to bear in mind that neither you or I are aviation experts so whilst we may have a "layman's" view, it really isn't one which is based on the breadth & level of knowledge and understanding that those involved in safety day to day have. It's true that EASA has not imposed such a rule, and many airlines in Europe do not have a rule on this, and this is a strong suggestion that there isn't a simple right & wrong issue with an easy answer.

I don't want to be trite about your concerns, and I appreciate you mentioned a fear of flying, but there are far more accidents and incidents which have happened with two pilots in the cockpit that one. Also in terms of the kind of pilot suicide incidents there have been more that happened with more than one pilot in the cockpit compared to those where there was only one. Having said that, flying is still incredibly safe and you are far more likely to come to harm just driving to and from the airport than on the plane itself.

At the end of the day you need to book with whoever you feel safe with, and if that means avoiding those who don't have a two person rule then you should do so. It may be worth trying to see if there are any fear of flying courses near where you are to help generally.

I think the recent issues with the 737MAX may suggest otherwise

Globaliser

Remember - the introduction of armoured locked flight deck doors was a carefully-considered policy after 9/11. Yet I think that armoured locked flight deck doors have now killed more airline passengers than died on 9/11. (If I've got my precise maths wrong, I think that it's still of the same order of magnitude.)If you look into the detail of some of the suicide accidents, you will see that the suicidal crew member in question did precisely this: they successfully crashed the aircraft even though there were two pilots on the flight deck at the time.

BOH

It gets worse! There is now a MAX version of the 787 too