British Airways safety
Jun 21, 2019, 4:18 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 2
British Airways safety
I apologize if this sounds inane/stupid. I learned that British Airways (I'm flying with them soon) apparently does not maintain a policy of requiring two people in the flight deck at all times. With Egyptair 990, the Silkair crash, the Germanwings crash, the LAM Mozambique crash, and possibly MH370, pilot suicide has happened 4-5 times in the last twenty years on commercial aircraft which seems like a lot. That's an average of one every 4-5 years. It has been 4-5 years since Germanwings so I'm worried that next such crash is coming. Does lacking a two person cockpit at all times policy make BA less safe than other airlines? I know BA's past record makes them one of the safest airlines but, still. Thanks in advance.
Jun 21, 2019, 4:41 pm
#2
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I actually prefer BA's stance of not having a knee jerk reaction to those situations and specially the latest "theatre" of having a cabin crew member in the flight deck.
There's no evidence that this improves safety at all, it just gives the impression that it does. In reality, it introduces change that, who knows, can have unpredictable and unintended consequences that could result in an accident.
Quite frankly, if a pilot was really determined to crash a plane, I think he/she would manage to accomplish it, so this policy in itself is pointless. More important is to ensure that crews are screened for health issues, mental or otherwise;
Oh, and the idea that these situations happen on average every 4-5 years and so we are due one soon. That's not how statistics work 😂
There's no evidence that this improves safety at all, it just gives the impression that it does. In reality, it introduces change that, who knows, can have unpredictable and unintended consequences that could result in an accident.
Quite frankly, if a pilot was really determined to crash a plane, I think he/she would manage to accomplish it, so this policy in itself is pointless. More important is to ensure that crews are screened for health issues, mental or otherwise;
Oh, and the idea that these situations happen on average every 4-5 years and so we are due one soon. That's not how statistics work 😂
Jun 21, 2019, 4:47 pm
#3
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: London(ish)
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I wish BA would adopt this policy too!
I can't help but watch the flight deck door when I know someone is in there on their own.
Last time there was a delay in the captain getting in and I was about to flying head butt the door! I assume the FO was on the radio or something.
The relief when they got back in was real!
I can't help but watch the flight deck door when I know someone is in there on their own.
Last time there was a delay in the captain getting in and I was about to flying head butt the door! I assume the FO was on the radio or something.
The relief when they got back in was real!
Jun 21, 2019, 4:51 pm
#5
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,060
Unless the second person was a trained pilot, qualified on type and sat in the seat then two people on the flight deck does not reduce the risk of death by pilot suicide one iota.. The policies on mental health welfare are far more relevant. With all due respect the two person rule was a knee jerk reaction made by non pilots who completely failed to grasp the reality of the situation.
Jun 21, 2019, 4:52 pm
#6
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Of all the flights you mentioned, the only one am aware was known to only have one person in the cockpit is eurowings.
As we have no access to the cockpit and cannot see inside we have no idea if one pilot has turned on the other.
Not convinced the new policy helps. The issue at Eurowings was the other pilot could not regain access to the cockpit. I expect BA has a procedure now to deal with that eventuality in the very unlikely event it happens.
Personally i am not concerned by BAs take on this.
As we have no access to the cockpit and cannot see inside we have no idea if one pilot has turned on the other.
Not convinced the new policy helps. The issue at Eurowings was the other pilot could not regain access to the cockpit. I expect BA has a procedure now to deal with that eventuality in the very unlikely event it happens.
Personally i am not concerned by BAs take on this.
Jun 21, 2019, 4:53 pm
#7
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 42
I imagine that if a Pilot Flying or Pilot Not Flying wished to deviate/crash an aircraft they would be able to do this regardless of whether a member of Cabin Crew was in the flight deck with them. Some actions/reactions from certain Airlines just don’t make sense. From what I’ve seen, I think BA gets it right.
Jun 21, 2019, 5:19 pm
#9
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OP, your concerns re 2 people in the cockpit are misplaced. You should look for an airline that has an open mental health policy. I would far rather my pilot admitted their health issues, and was on sertraline/citalopram etc, than wasn’t able to be honest and hid their problem.
Jun 21, 2019, 5:21 pm
#10
Join Date: Mar 2011
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A
sorry. Can’t agree. Surely it’s not about flying skills, mental health etc,,, it’s more ensuring that a lone pilot doesn’t nose dive the the aircraft!.
Unless the second person was a trained pilot, qualified on type and sat in the seat then two people on the flight deck does not reduce the risk of death by pilot suicide one iota.. The policies on mental health welfare are far more relevant. With all due respect the two person rule was a knee jerk reaction made by non pilots who completely failed to grasp the reality of the situation.
Jun 21, 2019, 5:48 pm
#11
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 858
TCM, I would agree with you except:
This is assuming the "second person" is capable of restraining, single handedly, the "deranged pilot". If you know any police officers, they will tell you how difficult it is for a trained person to do this single-handed!
Or perhaps it is unreasonable to even think of the cabin crew to be capable of knowing whether the pilot has set the autopilot to climb and depressurised the aircraft (which is one suggestion of the MH incident)
Incidentally, if the above MH scenario is true, could it be because of a hijack and a way of preventing the hijackers doing a 9/11 - so even worse consequences than losing the aircraft and its crew and passengers?
So the solution is outside the aircraft. Proper care for mental health issues.
(incidentally, what about the mental health improvements of having kids in the cockpit and being able to show them the joys of flying? Yes, every coin has two sides!)
This is assuming the "second person" is capable of restraining, single handedly, the "deranged pilot". If you know any police officers, they will tell you how difficult it is for a trained person to do this single-handed!
Or perhaps it is unreasonable to even think of the cabin crew to be capable of knowing whether the pilot has set the autopilot to climb and depressurised the aircraft (which is one suggestion of the MH incident)
Incidentally, if the above MH scenario is true, could it be because of a hijack and a way of preventing the hijackers doing a 9/11 - so even worse consequences than losing the aircraft and its crew and passengers?
So the solution is outside the aircraft. Proper care for mental health issues.
(incidentally, what about the mental health improvements of having kids in the cockpit and being able to show them the joys of flying? Yes, every coin has two sides!)
Jun 21, 2019, 8:13 pm
#12
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,060
And how would a non pilot know what the "suicidal" pilot was doing? How would they stop them? Answers on a post card please.
Jun 21, 2019, 8:33 pm
#13
Join Date: Oct 2015
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IIRC Lubitz didn’t nose dive the aircraft either. I believe it took a while for anyone to notice what was going on as he just programmed a descent path into the autopilot (technical terms I know)
by the time a non trained observer would have notified, what would they have done? And at that point what’s to stop him them nosediving the plane?
pilot mental health needs to be addressed but unfortunately the current system only really encourages people to either lie and cover up, or to not seek help in the first place
by the time a non trained observer would have notified, what would they have done? And at that point what’s to stop him them nosediving the plane?
pilot mental health needs to be addressed but unfortunately the current system only really encourages people to either lie and cover up, or to not seek help in the first place
Jun 21, 2019, 9:57 pm
#14
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Jun 21, 2019, 10:36 pm
#15
Join Date: Nov 2016
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Just to put things into context, *if* a pilot suicide did happen once every five years (and let’s all hope it never happens again), that would put the occurrence rate at approximately 1 per 200 million departures (there are around 100,000 commercial flights per day globally). Conversely, the equivalent of a Boeing 737 load of passengers are killed each and every hour in road traffic-related accidents (estimates vary but something like 2 million per year).