Jul 20, 2019, 3:27 am
Last edit by: corporate-wage-slave
Quick answers to FAQ:
Help! What do I do now?
Most importantly, don't panic and don't do anything in haste. Read these FAQ. Read the thread, particularly the posts starting from the time that the strike dates were announced. Identify your options. Think about what works for you. Then take action. If you do anything in haste, you may have thrown away good options, or you may have thrown away money that you needn't have spent.
NOTE: Some emails have been sent out by mistake notifying the cancellation of flights on 8 September and other dates. If your booking still looks OK in MMB then you don't need to take further action. A cancelled flight should be shown in MMB with struck-through text. If your flight details are not struck through, then it probably hasn't actually been cancelled. You could check ba.com to see whether BA is still taking reservations for the flight in question. If so, then the flight has not been cancelled. You may also try checking on ExpertFlyer, if you have access, to see whether your flight appears still to be operating and whether BA is still taking reservations. However, some afternoon/evening flights on 8 September have genuinely been cancelled. See main thread for details.
Has a strike been called yet?
Yes. BALPA, the pilots' union, has voted in favour of strike action, and the Court of Appeal has rejected BA's submission to have the poll set aside, so the legal process is now over. The two parties went back into talks after the legal proceedings and those talks were expected to continue into the week of 5 August.
BALPA on 23 Aug announced strikes on Monday 9 September Tuesday 10 September and Friday 27 September.
Any further strikes normally require 2 weeks notice under UK legislation.
What flights may be affected?
LHR and LGW based flights. Not LCY or STN flights. Both cabin and flight crew are in dispute with BA, but the pilots (captains, senior first officers, first officers) are closest to strike action.
How long would a strike last?
The initial strikes are for two days the a single day, with normal working in between. Any other strikes could be of any length. It would be rare in the UK for there to be a full time strike.
What would happen to my flights if it is a strike day?
A range of options have been announced, see post 1551 below for more information: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...l#post31451055
and BA Trade Site guidance here: https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...kba?faqid=7594
Rebooking is now allowed on Iberia, AA, Finnair, JAL and Qatar. Within Europe EI and Vueling are also allowed. This is for both revenue and redemption flights.
and the FAQ on BA.com here (this includes information on BA Holidays bookings which are substantially different): https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...st-information
Can I do anything with an existing booking now?
Yes. Your options are different depending on whether your flights are currently showing as cancelled or not. See the links above.
What about Heathrow staff - aren't their strikes planned there too?
Yes there is a separate dispute at the moment between Heathrow Airport (HAL) and their staff such as those who operate the security checkpoints. See the separate thread on the issue.
Am I protected by EC261 if there is a problem?
You are always covered by the Right to Care provisions of Regulation EC261. You could potentially be able to claim compensation for delays, cancellations and downgrades caused by BA staff action too, but not for HAL strikes (for cancellations only if there is flight is less than 14 day’s notice). See the main EC261 thread in the BA Forum Dashboard.
Help! What do I do now?
Most importantly, don't panic and don't do anything in haste. Read these FAQ. Read the thread, particularly the posts starting from the time that the strike dates were announced. Identify your options. Think about what works for you. Then take action. If you do anything in haste, you may have thrown away good options, or you may have thrown away money that you needn't have spent.
NOTE: Some emails have been sent out by mistake notifying the cancellation of flights on 8 September and other dates. If your booking still looks OK in MMB then you don't need to take further action. A cancelled flight should be shown in MMB with struck-through text. If your flight details are not struck through, then it probably hasn't actually been cancelled. You could check ba.com to see whether BA is still taking reservations for the flight in question. If so, then the flight has not been cancelled. You may also try checking on ExpertFlyer, if you have access, to see whether your flight appears still to be operating and whether BA is still taking reservations. However, some afternoon/evening flights on 8 September have genuinely been cancelled. See main thread for details.
Has a strike been called yet?
Yes. BALPA, the pilots' union, has voted in favour of strike action, and the Court of Appeal has rejected BA's submission to have the poll set aside, so the legal process is now over. The two parties went back into talks after the legal proceedings and those talks were expected to continue into the week of 5 August.
BALPA on 23 Aug announced strikes on Monday 9 September Tuesday 10 September and Friday 27 September.
Any further strikes normally require 2 weeks notice under UK legislation.
What flights may be affected?
LHR and LGW based flights. Not LCY or STN flights. Both cabin and flight crew are in dispute with BA, but the pilots (captains, senior first officers, first officers) are closest to strike action.
How long would a strike last?
The initial strikes are for two days the a single day, with normal working in between. Any other strikes could be of any length. It would be rare in the UK for there to be a full time strike.
What would happen to my flights if it is a strike day?
A range of options have been announced, see post 1551 below for more information: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...l#post31451055
and BA Trade Site guidance here: https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...kba?faqid=7594
Rebooking is now allowed on Iberia, AA, Finnair, JAL and Qatar. Within Europe EI and Vueling are also allowed. This is for both revenue and redemption flights.
and the FAQ on BA.com here (this includes information on BA Holidays bookings which are substantially different): https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...st-information
Can I do anything with an existing booking now?
Yes. Your options are different depending on whether your flights are currently showing as cancelled or not. See the links above.
What about Heathrow staff - aren't their strikes planned there too?
Yes there is a separate dispute at the moment between Heathrow Airport (HAL) and their staff such as those who operate the security checkpoints. See the separate thread on the issue.
Am I protected by EC261 if there is a problem?
You are always covered by the Right to Care provisions of Regulation EC261. You could potentially be able to claim compensation for delays, cancellations and downgrades caused by BA staff action too, but not for HAL strikes (for cancellations only if there is flight is less than 14 day’s notice). See the main EC261 thread in the BA Forum Dashboard.
LHR/LGW pilots (BALPA) industrial action 9 Sep, 10 Sep, and 27 Sep
Jul 23, 2019, 5:35 am
#466
Join Date: May 2006
Location: 5 miles from EMA
Programs: BD, BAEC Pleb, VS Pleb, Accor Pleb, HHonors Gold, Big White Season Pass
Posts: 5,907
I've just updated myself on post 238 (thanks c-w-s) and have a hypothetical question.
So (hypothetically speaking) a strike is called and my flight to Kefalonia is cancelled. The only other scheduled service is on A3 via ATH. Not very appealing since it kills a day of my holiday. If the worst came to the worst, would BA look at charter flight tickets from a regional airport? I'd rather get there anyhow as my dates have no flexibility.
So (hypothetically speaking) a strike is called and my flight to Kefalonia is cancelled. The only other scheduled service is on A3 via ATH. Not very appealing since it kills a day of my holiday. If the worst came to the worst, would BA look at charter flight tickets from a regional airport? I'd rather get there anyhow as my dates have no flexibility.
Jul 23, 2019, 5:40 am
#467
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: London
Programs: BA, VS, HH, IHG, MB, MR
Posts: 26,871
Well, no. The case was not thrown out. The application for an injunction was heard and the court ruled, inter alia, that BALPA had not improperly worded the ballot. Accordingly the application for injunction was refused. As is standard procedure in the UK, costs followed the cause and the losing party paid the costs. Thomas Cook were not banned from appealing, but their request for leave to appeal was refused because the judge was satisfied the legal position, on the evidence, was sufficiently clear.
Jul 23, 2019, 5:58 am
#468
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: OSL
Posts: 2,647
There is not an oversupply of pilots. E.g. many ex-Monarch pilots were not out of a job for long.
Meanwhile airline pilots, especially captains, are hardly run of the mill people. Medical requirements, aptitude to take command decisions, hand/eye skills and other talents, and skills learned through experience are on top of an ATPL and the command course being as much work as doing a bachelors and masters university degrees. Compare their pay to similarly highly experienced, trained, and talented people and it looks quite equitable.
"Aircraft easier to fly" cracks me up. Have you even tried a widebody simulator? Or read a 777/787 FCOM (you can find PDFs online).
Claiming that pilots "ought to be paid less" is as ridiculous as claiming someone "ought to pay" the price you want when you're selling your car or your house. The buyer will pay what they can negotiate, and if they're the only person who is there to buy from you when you need to sell then you will get what price they are willing to pay. BA pilots think that BA should pay them more, both for what BA can afford, the value they give to BA, and for the fairness of paying back in good times what the pilots gave up in bad times. You don't get to dictate the salary of the BA pilots any more than you get to dictate the selling price of your car or house.
Meanwhile airline pilots, especially captains, are hardly run of the mill people. Medical requirements, aptitude to take command decisions, hand/eye skills and other talents, and skills learned through experience are on top of an ATPL and the command course being as much work as doing a bachelors and masters university degrees. Compare their pay to similarly highly experienced, trained, and talented people and it looks quite equitable.
"Aircraft easier to fly" cracks me up. Have you even tried a widebody simulator? Or read a 777/787 FCOM (you can find PDFs online).
Claiming that pilots "ought to be paid less" is as ridiculous as claiming someone "ought to pay" the price you want when you're selling your car or your house. The buyer will pay what they can negotiate, and if they're the only person who is there to buy from you when you need to sell then you will get what price they are willing to pay. BA pilots think that BA should pay them more, both for what BA can afford, the value they give to BA, and for the fairness of paying back in good times what the pilots gave up in bad times. You don't get to dictate the salary of the BA pilots any more than you get to dictate the selling price of your car or house.
Yes, there is no pilot scarcity. Whilst the market is global, pilots like most other prove not to be globally mobile - cf. Middle East. If there truly was pilot scarcity, this strike would not happen. Whilst I don't believe in oft-used FT wording, 'if you don't like it, go elsewhere', the reality is that most would if a competitor were offering 10% above BA. I guess you are not going to tell me whether the Monarch pilots got jobs which paid the same amount of money, gave them the benefits they'd accrued etc...
I said I agree pilots should be paid more (please re-read). However you can cut the pie in several ways: pay people more base salaries, increase fixed costs and in downturn those fixed costs needs to be cut; enter redundancies. Or you can choose to pay them variable pay (bonus / profit share) not using some horribly complicated formula.
Jul 23, 2019, 6:04 am
#469
Ambassador, British Airways; FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds, UK
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL, HH Diamond
Posts: 42,997
Jul 23, 2019, 6:08 am
#470
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,862
I'm due to fly out on BA to Stockholm on August 31st to connect to a QR flight to Asia Sept 1st. If my BA flight ends up being changed to a non-BA flight due to strike, I understand I would get ORC for TPs and Avios but how does that affect meeting the 4 BA metal flights requirement for Silver? (I will hit the TP requirement, so that's not an issue.)
Jul 23, 2019, 6:35 am
#471
Formerly known as newbie elite
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: YUL
Programs: IHG Diamond Ambassador, Accor Platinum, AC50K
Posts: 2,928
Hello, I understand predicting the impact of these types of actions is hard but I have a question related to the LHR staff strikes on Jul26-27
Flying out YUL-LHR in CW on Jul25, landing early morning T5 I imagine, then had a 10-hour layover until JAL LHR-HND in F from T3.
I had planned on grabbing HEX (have tickets already) and going to the Imperial War Museum, is that (leaving the airport) a completely daft idea, even if I come back 2 hours earlier? Or does the fact that I have to go from T5 from T3 mean that I would have to face whatever madness will occur (Fast Track lines are usually the first things to go on these days IME), so wether I do it on arrival or on return from my day-trip into London (budgeting appropriate extra time of course) it is the same delay.
I hope this is clearish, looking for any guidance. Worse case I will stay at the airport and drink LPGS in the Concorde Room all day, not a bad plan B!
Thank you
Flying out YUL-LHR in CW on Jul25, landing early morning T5 I imagine, then had a 10-hour layover until JAL LHR-HND in F from T3.
I had planned on grabbing HEX (have tickets already) and going to the Imperial War Museum, is that (leaving the airport) a completely daft idea, even if I come back 2 hours earlier? Or does the fact that I have to go from T5 from T3 mean that I would have to face whatever madness will occur (Fast Track lines are usually the first things to go on these days IME), so wether I do it on arrival or on return from my day-trip into London (budgeting appropriate extra time of course) it is the same delay.
I hope this is clearish, looking for any guidance. Worse case I will stay at the airport and drink LPGS in the Concorde Room all day, not a bad plan B!
Thank you
Jul 23, 2019, 6:40 am
#472
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Lausanne Switzerland
Programs: BA Gold; Swiss Blue
Posts: 1,244
Hello, I understand predicting the impact of these types of actions is hard but I have a question related to the LHR staff strikes on Jul26-27
Flying out YUL-LHR in CW on Jul25, landing early morning T5 I imagine, then had a 10-hour layover until JAL LHR-HND in F from T3.
I had planned on grabbing HEX (have tickets already) and going to the Imperial War Museum, is that (leaving the airport) a completely daft idea, even if I come back 2 hours earlier? Or does the fact that I have to go from T5 from T3 mean that I would have to face whatever madness will occur (Fast Track lines are usually the first things to go on these days IME), so wether I do it on arrival or on return from my day-trip into London (budgeting appropriate extra time of course) it is the same delay.
I hope this is clearish, looking for any guidance. Worse case I will stay at the airport and drink LPGS in the Concorde Room all day, not a bad plan B!
Thank you
Flying out YUL-LHR in CW on Jul25, landing early morning T5 I imagine, then had a 10-hour layover until JAL LHR-HND in F from T3.
I had planned on grabbing HEX (have tickets already) and going to the Imperial War Museum, is that (leaving the airport) a completely daft idea, even if I come back 2 hours earlier? Or does the fact that I have to go from T5 from T3 mean that I would have to face whatever madness will occur (Fast Track lines are usually the first things to go on these days IME), so wether I do it on arrival or on return from my day-trip into London (budgeting appropriate extra time of course) it is the same delay.
I hope this is clearish, looking for any guidance. Worse case I will stay at the airport and drink LPGS in the Concorde Room all day, not a bad plan B!
Thank you
You will have to go through security come what may.
Is your intineray one ticket YUL - LHR - HND? if so your baggage will be through checked. if not you will have to collect in T5 and then take it over to T3 and re-check.
If you hang arrount the airport you will not be sipping LPGS in the Concorde room as from your post you are leaving from T3 so no access to T5 Concorde Room.
You will have to stay flexible, and watch what is happening.
SB
Jul 23, 2019, 7:00 am
#473
Formerly known as newbie elite
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: YUL
Programs: IHG Diamond Ambassador, Accor Platinum, AC50K
Posts: 2,928
Is your intineray one ticket YUL - LHR - HND? if so your baggage will be through checked. if not you will have to collect in T5 and then take it over to T3 and re-check.
If you hang arrount the airport you will not be sipping LPGS in the Concorde room as from your post you are leaving from T3 so no access to T5 Concorde Room.
You will have to stay flexible, and watch what is happening.
SB
If you hang arrount the airport you will not be sipping LPGS in the Concorde room as from your post you are leaving from T3 so no access to T5 Concorde Room.
You will have to stay flexible, and watch what is happening.
SB
I forgot Concorde room was BA F only you are correct (originally LHR-HND was on BA F, switched it to JAL F to try them out). Oh well, will have to slum it at T3 CX First lounge if I stay, the horror!
Thank you for the quick reply and the key info that I have to go through security anyway at one point in my day, will monitor the situation and take it from there.
Jul 23, 2019, 7:04 am
#474
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Flatland
Programs: AA Lifetime Gold 1MM, BA Gold, UA Peon
Posts: 6,112
I expect there will be blow-by-blow accounts on Flyertalk of how strike action (both BA and HAL) is affecting things. Between your own observations on the day and the FT hive mind, you should be able to decide on the day how to proceed. In particular whether you are better off joining a flight connections scrum (in T3), ground transfer and join a scrum in the main security, or proceeding to visit London before returning for a normal experience.
Jul 23, 2019, 7:09 am
#475
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Dorset, United Kingdom. Frequently at higher altitudes.
Programs: BAEC Gold and a few others
Posts: 103
Regarding the Heathrow Airport strikes this weekend, are lounge staff part of the walk out? Or are they employed by the catering company? I am selfishly thinking of our Friday AM in the T5 Flounge. Important stuff, clearly!
Jul 23, 2019, 7:26 am
#476
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Lausanne Switzerland
Programs: BA Gold; Swiss Blue
Posts: 1,244
Where as Aspire could well be HAL staff...
Jul 23, 2019, 7:29 am
#477
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: BRS
Programs: BA Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 4,996
Jul 23, 2019, 7:37 am
#478
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: LON
Programs: BA Gold; LH FTL; IHG Diamond; Marriott Gold; ALL Gold
Posts: 1,758
So who does HAL actually employ, that would affect the smooth operation of flights? Security screening staff and baggage handlers, anyone else? If I travel HBO and allow plenty of time for security on Friday, am I likely to be ok?
Jul 23, 2019, 7:40 am
#479
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: NT Australia
Programs: QF WP
Posts: 4,160
security, cleaners, those purple people who help manage immigration lines, that kind of stuff
Jul 23, 2019, 7:43 am
#480
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Lausanne Switzerland
Programs: BA Gold; Swiss Blue
Posts: 1,244
[Please correct if I have that wrong]