Jul 20, 2019, 3:27 am
Last edit by: corporate-wage-slave
Quick answers to FAQ:
Help! What do I do now?
Most importantly, don't panic and don't do anything in haste. Read these FAQ. Read the thread, particularly the posts starting from the time that the strike dates were announced. Identify your options. Think about what works for you. Then take action. If you do anything in haste, you may have thrown away good options, or you may have thrown away money that you needn't have spent.
NOTE: Some emails have been sent out by mistake notifying the cancellation of flights on 8 September and other dates. If your booking still looks OK in MMB then you don't need to take further action. A cancelled flight should be shown in MMB with struck-through text. If your flight details are not struck through, then it probably hasn't actually been cancelled. You could check ba.com to see whether BA is still taking reservations for the flight in question. If so, then the flight has not been cancelled. You may also try checking on ExpertFlyer, if you have access, to see whether your flight appears still to be operating and whether BA is still taking reservations. However, some afternoon/evening flights on 8 September have genuinely been cancelled. See main thread for details.
Has a strike been called yet?
Yes. BALPA, the pilots' union, has voted in favour of strike action, and the Court of Appeal has rejected BA's submission to have the poll set aside, so the legal process is now over. The two parties went back into talks after the legal proceedings and those talks were expected to continue into the week of 5 August.
BALPA on 23 Aug announced strikes on Monday 9 September Tuesday 10 September and Friday 27 September.
Any further strikes normally require 2 weeks notice under UK legislation.
What flights may be affected?
LHR and LGW based flights. Not LCY or STN flights. Both cabin and flight crew are in dispute with BA, but the pilots (captains, senior first officers, first officers) are closest to strike action.
How long would a strike last?
The initial strikes are for two days the a single day, with normal working in between. Any other strikes could be of any length. It would be rare in the UK for there to be a full time strike.
What would happen to my flights if it is a strike day?
A range of options have been announced, see post 1551 below for more information: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...l#post31451055
and BA Trade Site guidance here: https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...kba?faqid=7594
Rebooking is now allowed on Iberia, AA, Finnair, JAL and Qatar. Within Europe EI and Vueling are also allowed. This is for both revenue and redemption flights.
and the FAQ on BA.com here (this includes information on BA Holidays bookings which are substantially different): https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...st-information
Can I do anything with an existing booking now?
Yes. Your options are different depending on whether your flights are currently showing as cancelled or not. See the links above.
What about Heathrow staff - aren't their strikes planned there too?
Yes there is a separate dispute at the moment between Heathrow Airport (HAL) and their staff such as those who operate the security checkpoints. See the separate thread on the issue.
Am I protected by EC261 if there is a problem?
You are always covered by the Right to Care provisions of Regulation EC261. You could potentially be able to claim compensation for delays, cancellations and downgrades caused by BA staff action too, but not for HAL strikes (for cancellations only if there is flight is less than 14 day’s notice). See the main EC261 thread in the BA Forum Dashboard.
Help! What do I do now?
Most importantly, don't panic and don't do anything in haste. Read these FAQ. Read the thread, particularly the posts starting from the time that the strike dates were announced. Identify your options. Think about what works for you. Then take action. If you do anything in haste, you may have thrown away good options, or you may have thrown away money that you needn't have spent.
NOTE: Some emails have been sent out by mistake notifying the cancellation of flights on 8 September and other dates. If your booking still looks OK in MMB then you don't need to take further action. A cancelled flight should be shown in MMB with struck-through text. If your flight details are not struck through, then it probably hasn't actually been cancelled. You could check ba.com to see whether BA is still taking reservations for the flight in question. If so, then the flight has not been cancelled. You may also try checking on ExpertFlyer, if you have access, to see whether your flight appears still to be operating and whether BA is still taking reservations. However, some afternoon/evening flights on 8 September have genuinely been cancelled. See main thread for details.
Has a strike been called yet?
Yes. BALPA, the pilots' union, has voted in favour of strike action, and the Court of Appeal has rejected BA's submission to have the poll set aside, so the legal process is now over. The two parties went back into talks after the legal proceedings and those talks were expected to continue into the week of 5 August.
BALPA on 23 Aug announced strikes on Monday 9 September Tuesday 10 September and Friday 27 September.
Any further strikes normally require 2 weeks notice under UK legislation.
What flights may be affected?
LHR and LGW based flights. Not LCY or STN flights. Both cabin and flight crew are in dispute with BA, but the pilots (captains, senior first officers, first officers) are closest to strike action.
How long would a strike last?
The initial strikes are for two days the a single day, with normal working in between. Any other strikes could be of any length. It would be rare in the UK for there to be a full time strike.
What would happen to my flights if it is a strike day?
A range of options have been announced, see post 1551 below for more information: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...l#post31451055
and BA Trade Site guidance here: https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...kba?faqid=7594
Rebooking is now allowed on Iberia, AA, Finnair, JAL and Qatar. Within Europe EI and Vueling are also allowed. This is for both revenue and redemption flights.
and the FAQ on BA.com here (this includes information on BA Holidays bookings which are substantially different): https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...st-information
Can I do anything with an existing booking now?
Yes. Your options are different depending on whether your flights are currently showing as cancelled or not. See the links above.
What about Heathrow staff - aren't their strikes planned there too?
Yes there is a separate dispute at the moment between Heathrow Airport (HAL) and their staff such as those who operate the security checkpoints. See the separate thread on the issue.
Am I protected by EC261 if there is a problem?
You are always covered by the Right to Care provisions of Regulation EC261. You could potentially be able to claim compensation for delays, cancellations and downgrades caused by BA staff action too, but not for HAL strikes (for cancellations only if there is flight is less than 14 day’s notice). See the main EC261 thread in the BA Forum Dashboard.
LHR/LGW pilots (BALPA) industrial action 9 Sep, 10 Sep, and 27 Sep
Jun 12, 2019, 9:38 am
#32
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Jun 12, 2019, 9:42 am
#33
Join Date: Nov 2014
Programs: BA Silver, Virgin Gold
Posts: 197
2 nights in Vegas rest. Ridiculous.
We all know why they want to keep this but it is obviously not required.
If anything the change to 1 night may mean people only working the return with a 1 night hangover as apart from the 2 night out hangover that usually happens on this route
We all know why they want to keep this but it is obviously not required.
If anything the change to 1 night may mean people only working the return with a 1 night hangover as apart from the 2 night out hangover that usually happens on this route
Jun 12, 2019, 10:02 am
#35
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Scotland
Programs: BA Silver, Hilton Diamond, BD Blue (RIP)
Posts: 1,986
2 nights in Vegas rest. Ridiculous.
We all know why they want to keep this but it is obviously not required.
If anything the change to 1 night may mean people only working the return with a 1 night hangover as apart from the 2 night out hangover that usually happens on this route
We all know why they want to keep this but it is obviously not required.
If anything the change to 1 night may mean people only working the return with a 1 night hangover as apart from the 2 night out hangover that usually happens on this route
Jun 12, 2019, 12:02 pm
#36
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 494
It has always surprised me that BA manage to maintain separate T&C for different cabin crew fleets. I thought that recent Industrial Tribunal cases, for example Birmingham dustmen and other council employers doing work of similar value in similar grades, would apply, requiring the same conditions to be applied to all cabin crew.
Jun 12, 2019, 5:33 pm
#37
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: LAS ORD
Programs: AA Pro (mostly B6) OZ♦ (flying BR/UA), BA Silver Hyatt LT, Wynn Black, Cosmo Plat, Mlife Noir
Posts: 5,992
This was the source of my confusion and thus my question earlier in this thread. And not even talking WW vs MF, but LHR vs LGW.
Jun 12, 2019, 6:08 pm
#38
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: East Coast US
Programs: Hyatt: Diamond. Marriott: Platinum. AA: EXP 1MM. Delta: Silver. Etihad: Silver. Emirates Silver
Posts: 387
I'd support them for more pay and compensation packages, but in return I want improvement in service and attitude from staff. Problem with this unionized structure is if staff do well then there is no upside for them, and if they don't do well (i.e. complaints about performance from customers etc.) then there are few consequences, if any. This is game of give and take, pay for appropriate service and rewards for going beyond expectations, as well as consequences for poor performance. Accountability for both crew and management is the only way which is fair. Having said that, this is bad news for BA as disruptions are costly and puts pressured on financial results, and as it is BA is encumbered with fares from LHR/LGW being saddled with high APD's which means they cannot just pass off some of the pay increases to customers, it will have to come from savings from other expenses, which means cuts to services etc.
Jun 12, 2019, 8:46 pm
#40
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: CX Green, QF Platinum, BAEC Silver, Hyatt Glob
Posts: 10,780
2 nights in Vegas rest. Ridiculous.
We all know why they want to keep this but it is obviously not required.
If anything the change to 1 night may mean people only working the return with a 1 night hangover as apart from the 2 night out hangover that usually happens on this route
We all know why they want to keep this but it is obviously not required.
If anything the change to 1 night may mean people only working the return with a 1 night hangover as apart from the 2 night out hangover that usually happens on this route
Jun 12, 2019, 10:51 pm
#41
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 7,464
Jun 12, 2019, 11:40 pm
#42
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 7,238
2 nights in Vegas rest. Ridiculous.
We all know why they want to keep this but it is obviously not required.
If anything the change to 1 night may mean people only working the return with a 1 night hangover as apart from the 2 night out hangover that usually happens on this route
We all know why they want to keep this but it is obviously not required.
If anything the change to 1 night may mean people only working the return with a 1 night hangover as apart from the 2 night out hangover that usually happens on this route
The guy from Head for Points wrote an article some time ago (when I still went around by the nickname '13900', before stupidly locking myself out and becoming '13901') about the potential for strike, an article that I didn't take too seriously. In all honesty, I should've known better. In the past 3 years BA has: 1) closed the defined contribution scheme; 2) closed ICC bases in GRU, EZE, HKG, SIN; 3) reduced all HQ areas by 30%, in some cases more; 4) outsourced all Line Maintenance but for 2 stations in Europe; 5) outsourced IT, with the loss of approx. 1,000 jobs; 6) modified the grading structure in LHR, with the end of most of the highest paid roles; 7) reduced greatly middle management in the operation at the hubs; 8) closed a number of US stations and most of Europe's.
Some of these activities were forced, and I don't feel animosity at having been treated the way that I, personally, have (having to re-apply for your own job twice in 5 years, my team has shrunk 50%). However, BA has won in all of the above cases, sometimes extremely easily. It's understandable that they're confident that they'll slam dunk this pay deal too (the real thorny issue is the pilot/crew pay deal, the LGW strike and the MF scheduling agreement are sideshows). However I don't think that it'll work, especially if pilots go for it too.
Jun 12, 2019, 11:51 pm
#43
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: U.K.
Programs: BA Exec Club Gold, Hilton Honors Diamond
Posts: 277
Situations such as these are never helped by sensationalist reporting from the beloved media. I would also say the Unions dont always help themselves in their choice of language. This forum has an incredibly high number of members who spend a huge amount of time on aircraft in general, and those who probably spend more time on them than some of the crew themselves and therefore experience the negatives of frequent travel etc.
Having said that there is a lot to be said for working on an aircraft compared to being a passenger on one. For sometime my partner felt that the levels of tiredness I experienced once home from a trip were over the top and unjustified, this caused numerous arguments. Eventually he joined me on two trips; the first was a 10hr flight westbound which had two nights off downroute. We flew back to the UK and had two days at home. We then flew east for 13hrs and had another two nights off downroute. His attitude changed dramatically after this and I can say arguments are now minimal
I’m not naive to the fact that some crew members, from both sides of the flight deck door, will over indulge downroute and this will have a negative impact on both the quality and quantity of their rest. While reducing rest downroute may seem like a small matter, once combined with the numerous other physoclogial and physiological challenges of the job it becomes a much more important consideration with regards to terms and conditions, especially as each individual can handle these challenges in a different way.
Another area to consider, and has already been highlighted by many on this forum, is that without unions a vast majority of employees in a company such as BA have zero bargaining power. My partner is a senior manager in the financial world, he has taken several new jobs in the last eight years or so and for each of those he was able to negotiate his salary, bonus and leave prior to joining. He’s also given a fair amount of discretion in areas such as travel and can make the policy work in his favour. Obviously this isn’t the case for all and we can’t tar everyone with the same brush.
Views are my own...
Having said that there is a lot to be said for working on an aircraft compared to being a passenger on one. For sometime my partner felt that the levels of tiredness I experienced once home from a trip were over the top and unjustified, this caused numerous arguments. Eventually he joined me on two trips; the first was a 10hr flight westbound which had two nights off downroute. We flew back to the UK and had two days at home. We then flew east for 13hrs and had another two nights off downroute. His attitude changed dramatically after this and I can say arguments are now minimal
I’m not naive to the fact that some crew members, from both sides of the flight deck door, will over indulge downroute and this will have a negative impact on both the quality and quantity of their rest. While reducing rest downroute may seem like a small matter, once combined with the numerous other physoclogial and physiological challenges of the job it becomes a much more important consideration with regards to terms and conditions, especially as each individual can handle these challenges in a different way.
Another area to consider, and has already been highlighted by many on this forum, is that without unions a vast majority of employees in a company such as BA have zero bargaining power. My partner is a senior manager in the financial world, he has taken several new jobs in the last eight years or so and for each of those he was able to negotiate his salary, bonus and leave prior to joining. He’s also given a fair amount of discretion in areas such as travel and can make the policy work in his favour. Obviously this isn’t the case for all and we can’t tar everyone with the same brush.
Views are my own...
Jun 13, 2019, 6:37 am
#44
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
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If you enjoy nappy time so much, perhaps you should apply for a Mixed Fleet job!
You sound like the type of person BA would love to have on the team. ;-)
Jun 13, 2019, 8:48 am
#45
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A couple of years ago I did a trip on the Babybus LCY - JFK. There was an excellent member of cabin crew who was also on the baby bus back the following week when I took that flight.
Chatting to him on the way back he told me his flying schedule -
Tuesday - LCY-JFK (the flight I was on)
Wednesday JFK - LCY
Thursday - home
Friday - LGW-MCO
Saturday - MCO-LGW
Sunday - home
Monday - LCY-JFK
Tuesday JFK-LCY (the flight I was on)
(and I don't think that all the Sunday was spent at home as I believe LGW staff serving on the babybus spend the night in a hotel close to LCY)
That's hardly the glamorous life many people think cabin crew have. I don't think he got much chance to do any partying!
And speaking to cabin crew friends of mine (both BA and VS) they don't do a lot of partying either even with a 2 or even 3 night stop trip because they can't afford it!
Chatting to him on the way back he told me his flying schedule -
Tuesday - LCY-JFK (the flight I was on)
Wednesday JFK - LCY
Thursday - home
Friday - LGW-MCO
Saturday - MCO-LGW
Sunday - home
Monday - LCY-JFK
Tuesday JFK-LCY (the flight I was on)
(and I don't think that all the Sunday was spent at home as I believe LGW staff serving on the babybus spend the night in a hotel close to LCY)
That's hardly the glamorous life many people think cabin crew have. I don't think he got much chance to do any partying!
And speaking to cabin crew friends of mine (both BA and VS) they don't do a lot of partying either even with a 2 or even 3 night stop trip because they can't afford it!