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advice needed for downgraded first class passenger

advice needed for downgraded first class passenger

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Old Mar 15, 19, 3:52 am
  #31  
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
Absolutely, they have to have some sort of policy for this but targeting someone apparently without a seat (I suspect they actually did have the auto-seat) who was late to check-in - so perhaps a no-show anyway - seems reasonable. I don't see any other suggestions upthread.

And just to put this in context, I imagine the bulk of agents in the First Wing have never downgraded a First passenger. At T5 they sometimes go weeks between events like this, I suspect the cases that appear here are a magnified proportion, it is quite rare. Though they do overbook by 1 in the earlier stages of the 355 day booking window, by the time you get within a couple of weeks of departure that overbook is removed, so it only basically happens when people reserve long in advance and no-one changes at the last moment. Formula 1 Grand Prix events were one trigger that used to cause this, though I gather the algorithm has now been fixed for that (and taken out some Avios availability with it!). You are, I would guess, 20 times more likely to be upgraded to First than downgraded.
Your post makes, as usual, a lot of common sense. Except the 20 to 1. I have no idea f the number but I would venture as wildly 10000/1 and that would mostly be because of equipment change and broken seat.

It would be interesting to know the exact process.
You are quite right that most F overbook typically happen long before the flight. But when you book F, you can select a seat or one is automatically assigned (typically in last row).
I wonder what is the exact process before OLCI. My guess (only a guess) is that each pax is assigned (or select) a seat until 14 pax have booked. Any overbooked pax will get some message like "seat on request". I wonder when they decide to kick a pax who has not yet checked in to give that seat to the "overbooked" pax.
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Old Mar 15, 19, 4:45 am
  #32  
 
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Originally Posted by HMPS View Post
What I am hearing is last to check in is IT ! Is there no human element allowed in this decision ?
Of course humans are involved.

Being last to check-in is just one of the factors used to decide whoís ďITĒ.

Other factors are status, and time of booking, and possibly your FT post count...
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Old Mar 15, 19, 6:00 am
  #33  
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BA will overbook by more than one pax as we found out returning from KUL in F
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Old Mar 15, 19, 5:59 pm
  #34  
 
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Originally Posted by CCayley View Post


If First is oversold and everyone turns up, someone has to be 'IT' as you put it. Why should the last person to turn up expect BA to downgrade someone else who did bother to select a seat, did bother to check in and has a boarding pass just because they are "distraught"? What does that even mean - anyone who goes into hysterics at the check in desk should be rewarded by getting whatever they want?
Again, what policy, rule, algorithm is used ? (Also pls see post following yours).
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Old Mar 15, 19, 7:24 pm
  #35  
 
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Originally Posted by JAXBA View Post

Of course humans are involved.

Being last to check-in is just one of the factors used to decide whoís ďITĒ.

Other factors are status, and time of booking, and possibly your FT post count...
why should last to check in be a consideration? If I buy a ticket and donít check in online because Iím busy etc it doesnít mean I should be downgraded just because I check in later. If someone buys a ticket and doesnít know (I know that is unlikely) they have to check in online then why should they be downgraded?

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Old Mar 15, 19, 7:38 pm
  #36  
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Originally Posted by arh1 View Post


why should last to check in be a consideration? If I buy a ticket and don’t check in online because I’m busy etc it doesn’t mean I should be downgraded just because I check in later. If someone buys a ticket and doesn’t know (I know that is unlikely) they have to check in online then why should they be downgraded?

Someone (c-w-s I think) explained earlier in the thread that the person who does not OLCI is more likely to no-show than those who have. To me, that makes sense.

Having said that, a downgrade report makes it sound like it's a routine occurrence but it certainly isn't, so really, it's probably best if we don't get overly concerned about it.

In any case someone has to be 'picked', and the person who was picked would never be happy regardless anyway (unless the compensations were very generous).

I once got picked to go 'no meal' in CE because I was apparently the last to book. It wasn't a cheap ticket (being the last to book might well have meant I was on the most expensive ticket on the flight), a GGL, and checked in early, but still, they had to pick someone under one criteria or another as they wouldn't find it easy to make a meal appear down-route at the last minute when they don't have a contract in place and the eating facilities there are rather lacking anyway. The need to pick someone under some kind of a criteria would be the same with a seat shortage (even if the criteria is different, which it probably is, the need to pick someone is definitely there, I'd say!).
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Last edited by LTN Phobia; Mar 15, 19 at 8:23 pm
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Old Mar 15, 19, 7:39 pm
  #37  
 
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Originally Posted by arh1 View Post


why should last to check in be a consideration? If I buy a ticket and donít check in online because Iím busy etc it doesnít mean I should be downgraded just because I check in later. If someone buys a ticket and doesnít know (I know that is unlikely) they have to check in online then why should they be downgraded?

Something has to be a consideration, whether it's status, fare paid, who is using Avios or whatever. If there is a 'plane with 14 F seats waiting to fly to LHR and 15 people have F tickets for that service then somebody has to draw the short straw. And if 14 people rock up to the airport with boarding passes and the last to show up hasn't checked in and there are no seats left, then that last person might well find they are the one! That is all anyone has said. No one is defending the policy or suggesting this is how things should be, but on the rare occasions someone has to be booted out of F a failure to reserve a seat or check in, or even just showing up last may be the factor that gets used.
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Old Mar 15, 19, 8:21 pm
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Originally Posted by CCayley View Post

Something has to be a consideration, whether it's status, fare paid, who is using Avios or whatever. If there is a 'plane with 14 F seats waiting to fly to LHR and 15 people have F tickets for that service then somebody has to draw the short straw. And if 14 people rock up to the airport with boarding passes and the last to show up hasn't checked in and there are no seats left, then that last person might well find they are the one! That is all anyone has said. No one is defending the policy or suggesting this is how things should be, but on the rare occasions someone has to be booted out of F a failure to reserve a seat or check in, or even just showing up last may be the factor that gets used.
OK, but shouldn't a CUSTOMER who paid cash or well earned points / miles be told in advance the possible metrics that will be applied ? Airline will oversell to protect its bottom line as does the pax !
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Old Mar 15, 19, 8:24 pm
  #39  
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Originally Posted by HMPS View Post
OK, but shouldn't a CUSTOMER who paid cash or well earned points / miles be told in advance the possible metrics that will be applied ? Airline will oversell to protect its bottom line as does the pax !
Maybe it changes depending on the situation?
I'd probably consider it commercially sensitive information.

For all we know, the priority criteria may be a customer who puts 'customer' in capital letters because he could be a DYKWIA.
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Old Mar 16, 19, 3:24 am
  #40  
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Originally Posted by HMPS View Post
OK, but shouldn't a CUSTOMER who paid cash or well earned points / miles be told in advance the possible metrics that will be applied ? Airline will oversell to protect its bottom line as does the pax !
I think you need to be realistic here, and you haven't actually provided a better way of deciding the selected passenger/CUSTOMER either. This doesn't happen very often, we're well below the 1% territory, perhaps below the 0.1% territory. I posit that on the basis that at T5 there are thousands of First passengers every single day, and they can go for weeks on end without a First downgrade. If there was to be an extended dialogue with the passenger on all the countless sub 0.1% potential scenarios, s/he would never get out of bed. Anyone who is that interested in the deep details of airline operations - mostly they're not by the way - can research on the internet to find out more.
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Old Mar 16, 19, 4:25 am
  #41  
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
I think you need to be realistic here, and you haven't actually provided a better way of deciding the selected passenger/CUSTOMER either. This doesn't happen very often, we're well below the 1% territory, perhaps below the 0.1% territory. I posit that on the basis that at T5 there are thousands of First passengers every single day, and they can go for weeks on end without a First downgrade. If there was to be an extended dialogue with the passenger on all the countless sub 0.1% potential scenarios, s/he would never get out of bed. Anyone who is that interested in the deep details of airline operations - mostly they're not by the way - can research on the internet to find out more.
i think I would lose the will to live if next time I booked F someone at BA tried to explain exactly how they choose which person to downgrade or reroute in the fairly rare case of an overbooked cabin. Needless to say not knowing didnít ruin my enjoyment in F last weekend and many times before.

in my last 6-7 years flying with BA I have been upgraded a few times, and never downgraded. I donít worry about things which are highly unlikely to happen.
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Old Mar 16, 19, 4:43 am
  #42  
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Originally Posted by KARFA View Post

in my last 6-7 years flying with BA I have been upgraded a few times, and never downgraded. I don’t worry about things which are highly unlikely to happen.[/left]
I got one downgrade but that was during a weather-related disruption when my flight was cancelled and if I waited for a CE seat, my schedule would have been a mess.

I don't think I've actually ever witnessed anyone being downgraded without an exceptional circumstance like cancellations despite having checked in at the counter at least 500 times (probably more like 1,000 given I check bags on most BA flights) even though I've seen lots of upgrades (and even more people trying to blag upgrades!).

Even after the no-meal flight I never worry about downgrades, no meal etc - if I worried myself about those things, I'd be worried forever. I prefer to worry about things I have control over, like the weather*



*If anyone takes that serious... I suggest you get on Twitter and look at some cats to de-stress.
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Old Mar 16, 19, 12:35 pm
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Originally Posted by LTN Phobia View Post
I prefer to worry about things I have control over, like the weather.
With great power, comes great responsibility.
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