dougzz

dougzz

trooper

No doubt... but its not the same market. Flying in J on ANY European SHORT haul (some TK flights excepted) is an economy seat with an empty middle. From your "shock" it seems you just assumed it was going to be something more......For me the clue that it was NOT going to be was that it had a different NAME to the long haul version. Club Europe versus Club World. That was an "ahah" moment for me...

P.S. FRAUD is a pretty serious allegation. I think you'd find - with ANY level of research - that BA does NOT advertise Flat beds etc in CE... So...Fraud? really? This touches on a topic of great interest to me... the fact that so many people think "Business Class" is some kind of UN/Government/Church approved description of specific set of attributes... Hence these accusations of "fraud" or comments that it "shouldn't be allowed to be called Business"? Allowed by WHO? Its a marketing label. NZ have "Business Premier" (WTH does THAT mean?) Other airlines have equally odd names.....none of which really MEAN anything....

lost_in_translation

Except there is no empty middle in CE on Cityflyer, it's literally just the same seating as in economy with an antimacassar.

lost_in_translation

On the fraud point, it appears when booking CE from CMF BA is careful not to state anywhere that there will be access to a lounge before your flight, but the booking page does claim there will be a 'Dedicated check-in area' for business class, so this sounds certainly misleading.

simons1

Yes, I think we all understand the generic benefits/marketing fluff of CE. However the OP's circumstances were somewhat different.

No empty seat, no lounge (in either direction) and at LCY (not sure about Chambery) you are not even guaranteed to be off first as both sets of doors can be used. And TPs are not always important to people either.

So it could be an expensive option for a £5 CE meal and a voucher at Chambery that apparently cannot be used.....

fairhsa

It was NOT an economy seat with an empty middle seat. It was an economy seat, period. The aircraft was one of those small ones, whole cabin was 2-2. I had the previous week done a club europe business class flight from Rome to Heathrow with husband in Economy, so I do know what the standard club europe is like (compared to any Asian regional J). But this was NOT that. It was even less than that. Hence my complaint.

Big Bad D

Ldnn1

Adstring

I'm not sure this is quite true. When I last asked a BA agent, bags arriving at LHR are prioritised and possibly LGW. I've certainly received my bags faster than otherwise when tagged.

corporate-wage-slave

There are quite a few things I could say about this report, but I certainly thank the OP for adding to the information here.

I don't think FT regulars will be surprised since the BACF product is well known here, and HfP actively discourages people from booking CE on BACF services for many of the reasons you mention. BA don't advertise a lounge provision at Chambéry or LCY (and there is an FT lounge directory which identifies this too), nor an empty middle seat in the booking system. So in a sense the information about the Embraer seating and airport facilities is all online in multiple locations. BA isn't exactly alone in doing this, KLM and TAP have similar arrangements on their Embraer services too. The one thing BA does offer is a good use of Theoretical Seating for single passengers, which does generally work, in my case I've only had 2 occupied seats in my last 100 BACF services (that said it is a fairly impressive figure in ET too).

There is / was one wet lease aircraft with 1 + 2 fixed seating in CE but it is notable that it gets deployed on lower margin services - there isn't a business case for doing this generally on BACF. Chambéry is an extremely small airport. It's not even a quarter of the size of INV or LUX. The 10€ voucher is an improvement on what I got last year! I agree that the pulled pork isn't BACF's catering best option though for me it's OK to eat (see photos in the BACF catering guide elsewhere in FT) but typically Newrest will delete dishes which get negative feedback from the crew, I can think of two other corkers that are no longer offered.

I think there are two key benefits that haven't been mentioned so far. Chambéry is a ski resort location, so the extra baggage allowance for CE is important for many travellers and in some cases justifies paying the extra over ET. The typical uplift for CE over ET on that sector is around £55 if there is a Saturday night involved and two bags could be £60 to £85 each way in ET. Secondly for status passengers there is access to the lovely 2C and 2D,which must some of the longest legroom in European shorthaul aviation.

I guess the core point I'm trying to make is that CE on BACF or elsewhere on BA isn't for everyone, and those who are likely to be concerned about this can and should research the product before paying for it. Personally I like CE on BACF, and will continue to pay for it, it is popular on some routes, but I'm pleased that not everyone agrees, otherwise TS won't work!

BA or bust

Sadly.... I have to agree. The issue seems to be much more about first time European travellers who get a shock when the compare what they THINK is the standard for Business on BA (irrespective of whether it is technically branded Europe or World) and the (shabby IMO) reality. Though much of the disconnect is about the hard product I certainly have also experienced a significant difference in the soft product.

Though other's experience and views will vary, IME this is how it tends to pan out:

• European business class - poor hard product, very variable, generally not great soft product
• USA business class - decent hard product, very variable though generally reasonably good soft product
• Far East business class - very good hard product and generally excellent soft product

WorldLux

kingcole974

nancypants