Ask the staffer
Jul 26, 2023, 7:32 am
#1156
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,074
BA uses a provisional load sheet - this is the document that details the weight and balance of the aircraft. Behind it there are a few other things such as loading instructions etc.
For the load sheet we assume everything that is booked onto the flight will turn up. We perform initial performance calculations using this data. When the flight is completed and closed and the loaders and cargo have all finished then a final load sheet is sent.
Sometimes the loaders have to adjust what goes where or cargo wont fit or is heavier than initially thought etc. Anyway this is sent to the aircraft as it taxies - it is usually only a few kilos different from the plan and all is good.
Occasionally the actual loading when checked will put an aircraft outside its performance calculation and a recalculation will need to be done. Even more occasionally the actual loading will have been changed - cargo may not be ready on time etc and so the loading will have taken the aircraft balance out of safe limits - this is when a return to stand will be required.
It is a slightly cumbersome system but it does allow more timely departures - or do we are told.
For the load sheet we assume everything that is booked onto the flight will turn up. We perform initial performance calculations using this data. When the flight is completed and closed and the loaders and cargo have all finished then a final load sheet is sent.
Sometimes the loaders have to adjust what goes where or cargo wont fit or is heavier than initially thought etc. Anyway this is sent to the aircraft as it taxies - it is usually only a few kilos different from the plan and all is good.
Occasionally the actual loading when checked will put an aircraft outside its performance calculation and a recalculation will need to be done. Even more occasionally the actual loading will have been changed - cargo may not be ready on time etc and so the loading will have taken the aircraft balance out of safe limits - this is when a return to stand will be required.
It is a slightly cumbersome system but it does allow more timely departures - or do we are told.
Jul 26, 2023, 9:13 am
#1158
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: London
Programs: BA Silver (for now)
Posts: 1,000
BA uses a provisional load sheet - this is the document that details the weight and balance of the aircraft. Behind it there are a few other things such as loading instructions etc.
For the load sheet we assume everything that is booked onto the flight will turn up. We perform initial performance calculations using this data. When the flight is completed and closed and the loaders and cargo have all finished then a final load sheet is sent.
Sometimes the loaders have to adjust what goes where or cargo wont fit or is heavier than initially thought etc. Anyway this is sent to the aircraft as it taxies - it is usually only a few kilos different from the plan and all is good.
Occasionally the actual loading when checked will put an aircraft outside its performance calculation and a recalculation will need to be done. Even more occasionally the actual loading will have been changed - cargo may not be ready on time etc and so the loading will have taken the aircraft balance out of safe limits - this is when a return to stand will be required.
It is a slightly cumbersome system but it does allow more timely departures - or do we are told.
For the load sheet we assume everything that is booked onto the flight will turn up. We perform initial performance calculations using this data. When the flight is completed and closed and the loaders and cargo have all finished then a final load sheet is sent.
Sometimes the loaders have to adjust what goes where or cargo wont fit or is heavier than initially thought etc. Anyway this is sent to the aircraft as it taxies - it is usually only a few kilos different from the plan and all is good.
Occasionally the actual loading when checked will put an aircraft outside its performance calculation and a recalculation will need to be done. Even more occasionally the actual loading will have been changed - cargo may not be ready on time etc and so the loading will have taken the aircraft balance out of safe limits - this is when a return to stand will be required.
It is a slightly cumbersome system but it does allow more timely departures - or do we are told.
Jul 26, 2023, 10:35 am
#1160
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 113
In BAs case, they are part of a minority of airlines that operate in this manor - wherein they receive it via ACARS, often once on the taxi out. Theres clearly pros to this in terms of time savings from last minute changes that happens in BAs type of operation... but also many more cons in my personal opinion. Father_teds example being just one of them. Whilst rare, its a large cost to burn all that taxi fuel to just do it all again.
Jul 26, 2023, 1:44 pm
#1161
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,074
That's correct. It's a legal document that finalises all figures on the flight. It usually in most countries has to be signed by both the dispatcher and the captain in the paper format.
In BAs case, they are part of a minority of airlines that operate in this manor - wherein they receive it via ACARS, often once on the taxi out. Theres clearly pros to this in terms of time savings from last minute changes that happens in BAs type of operation... but also many more cons in my personal opinion. Father_teds example being just one of them. Whilst rare, its a large cost to burn all that taxi fuel to just do it all again.
In BAs case, they are part of a minority of airlines that operate in this manor - wherein they receive it via ACARS, often once on the taxi out. Theres clearly pros to this in terms of time savings from last minute changes that happens in BAs type of operation... but also many more cons in my personal opinion. Father_teds example being just one of them. Whilst rare, its a large cost to burn all that taxi fuel to just do it all again.
BA have had LCP for the 21 years I have been here, I have never had a RTS, so I figure they have got it right. I dread to think how many departures I have done in 15 years of SH and 6 of LH, but plenty. Make your own judgment as to LCP efficacy.
Jul 26, 2023, 3:47 pm
#1163
Join Date: Apr 2020
Programs: Exec Club
Posts: 19
I see the cavernous and very 1990s Newcastle office on banks of the Tyne is closing and moving to Cobalt Business Park in North Tyneside,
whilst I guess the majority work at home, will we see much disruption as the move is completed?
whilst I guess the majority work at home, will we see much disruption as the move is completed?
Jul 26, 2023, 6:07 pm
#1164
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Scotland, Spain
Programs: Skywards Gold, Amex Plat, SkyTeam Silver
Posts: 1,168
I'm not in anyway saying I think it's a bad procedure, but just the figure of 14 tons blows my mind.
Jul 27, 2023, 2:00 am
#1165
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Programs: IC Hotels Spire, BA Gold
Posts: 8,679
Jul 27, 2023, 2:16 am
#1167
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: UK
Programs: Mucci. And BA Gold previous awards - Gold 11, Silver 7, Bronze 4.
Posts: 4,254
On the light aircraft I fly I wont even go 1 solitary pound overweight!
Jul 27, 2023, 4:37 am
#1168
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,255
As waterhorse details, the limits on compliance for late close out procedure final loadsheets are far less than that which the manufacture may have built in for fat, but it does go to show the inherent strength in these beasts. On some fleets now with onboard performance tools, you can have several versions of preliminary figures as the load plan changes on the run up to departure.
Ive only ever had one RTS and that was at an outstation. Every LIR or loading instruction report Ive ever seen all pretty much follow an ICAO/IATA standard format, but on this occasion the rampies managed to get the load back to front! Thankfully an on the ball dispatcher noticed and called us back. As it transpired we were only a couple %MACTOW out from the original target figure given it was a full load, but they did the right thing and with the figures reversed to correctly show the trim, ran a new loadsheet and we had the new correct actual MACTOW, still in limits, no need to unload and reload but just reset the stab trim. One of those should never ever events and yet it happened! Complacency is often the root cause of such things.
Ive only ever had one RTS and that was at an outstation. Every LIR or loading instruction report Ive ever seen all pretty much follow an ICAO/IATA standard format, but on this occasion the rampies managed to get the load back to front! Thankfully an on the ball dispatcher noticed and called us back. As it transpired we were only a couple %MACTOW out from the original target figure given it was a full load, but they did the right thing and with the figures reversed to correctly show the trim, ran a new loadsheet and we had the new correct actual MACTOW, still in limits, no need to unload and reload but just reset the stab trim. One of those should never ever events and yet it happened! Complacency is often the root cause of such things.
Jul 27, 2023, 4:56 am
#1169
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,611
I remember sending student pilots 1st solo in a little Grumman AA1, and warning them that without my fat a@@e onboard, it would perform rather sportier on the climbout, and tend to float on landing. Those pounda made quite a difference.
Jul 27, 2023, 6:58 am
#1170
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: RTW
Posts: 677
Though the weight & balance software isn't always perfect, it seems:
https://onemileatatime.com/news/alas...7-tail-strike/
https://onemileatatime.com/news/alas...7-tail-strike/