tsg20

Thanks to both of you. In fact I procrastinated on putting this in, trying to find the best wording (clearly a total waste of time), so they've only had it for 2 weeks. I'll reply doing my best to make it clear - the first sentence/paragraph of my original communication was "I would like to claim a refund under EC261 for a flight downgrade.", so I don't know that I can make it much clearer than that!

Fergen

Hi,

First time poster, but a long time lurker on the forums, which have always been a valuable source of information.

I'm hoping someone can help with my situation and advise me if there is any recourse to BA in this situation. I was on BA7338 last night from PRG to LCY, which was diverted eventually to SEN after a couple of attempts trying to get in to LCY.

We landed around 40/50 minutes after scheduled arrival time. But of course, quite far away from LCY. There were no BA staff available upon landing and so we shared a taxi to London Liverpool Street with another couple from our flight (we were told that there were no trains running from Southend at that time to central London). We then took a taxi to SW London from there.

In total, we incurred over Ł100 in extra costs and were quite significantly delayed in getting home. I am assuming these can be claimed back and would be deemed reasonable by BA? Is it possible to claim any compensation under EU261 for the delay as well?

Thanks in advance.

corporate-wage-slave

Welcome to Flyertalk Fergen, and a particular welcome to the BA forum, it's good that you've come out of lurker-life and joined us here.

I can't see the reason for the diversion, but I presume it was due to the weather last night. If so then you would not get any compensation since that is Extraordinary Circumstances, particularly if the flight crew had made a few attempts before the diversion. And from this map of your flight, I don't think it was from want of trying.



Now for the taxis, I think you were poorly advised here, if it happens again you best go over to the station to check, it's just outside the terminal door. BA.com says you arrived at 20:50 but the last train from Southend is at 23:14, there are 7 services after your arrival time. BA would normally expect you to take public transport here but they will pay up to Ł50 for taxi fares. Now under EC261 Right to Care provisions there is no such limit, so if there really were no train services last night and therefore taxi was your only option, that would be different, but it would still require a bit of a fight. If you were intending to take a taxi home anyway last night then maybe you're not too much out of pocket.

scottishpoet

This is not BA related but I wondered if you can help

SA ticketed (083 ticket)

was due to arrive at FRA at 06:15 from JNB and leave from FRA at 07:00 on LOT to WAW (yes 45 minutes is a legal connection time for this transfer), due to arrive in warsaw at 08:50

Inboound landed at 06:20 and doors opened around 06:29. I cleared passport control, was in security at 06:41. I was at the gate by 06:50 9which I thought was impressive) but as it was a bus gate had missed the last bus by 5 minutes.

Was rebooked on the 10:35 which arrived at 12:42

So I am just shy of 4 hours late, and ticketed and arrived from JNB on a non EU carrier

Am I due anything?

corporate-wage-slave

So SAA were a few minutes late, which I guess was the root failure here (?) whereas LOT ran according to schedule. So in my book that makes the Operating Carrier as SAA and they are a non Community carrier from outwith the EU. So that's a no-go. Moreover there are lines of argument that an airline could use (e.g. blaming FRA for not having more airbriges). They're fairly ruthless on the FRA bus gates too, I guess they would have to be.

MCT at 45 minutes for FRA is barmy unless it was going to be in the same zone and airbridged both ways, but you will know that better than me!

scottishpoet

Totally agree, could not believe it when it was offered and Concur did not offer me the later flight. Both flights were in "B" and had we been on stand at 06:15 I would have made it.

The LOT flight I was only 17 minutes late arriving in WAW, but 3hrs 50mins behind when I should have arrived because the SAA flight was 10 to 15 late 9which was because we waited for 20 connecting PAX in Jburg

Vasco Pridat

A general question came up today when browsing the net about EU261 delays..
pretty much all the "we take care of it" sites about flight compensation state: more than 3h delay for a type 3 flight = cancellation and therefore you are entitled the 600 euros.
flyertalk wiki is the only source I could find that says .. type 3 flights get 600 after 4h and 50% less between 3 and 4h.
now I looked into the actual EU261 pdf.. and to me it sounds kinda weird.

it says - like all the paid flightright sites say - a delay of more than 3h is treated like a cancellation and therefore you are entitled to 600euro.
BUT if the airline offers an alternative flight that brings you to your destination THEN they can cut the compensation by 50% (Art. 7/2)

What do i understand wrong?

corporate-wage-slave

Cancellations and delays do have slightly different rules. So the Regulation actually hasn't nothing about delays, that came via court rulings, and that is where the 3 hour rule came from, not the article you quote. There are circumstances where cancellations AND delays can see your payment reduced by half, it depends on the distance. And yes, if the airline gets you to your destination by 2, 3 or 4 hours, depending on distance, then payment terms can vary. So for example if you are on a long flight, a delay between 3 and 4 hours gets 300€ if it is due to delay. If it's due to cancellation and you are 2 hours 45 minutes late it is 300€, if it's due to general delays then you get nothing. I think in time that may be changed, but the courts haven't so far done that.

These sites that offer to do the work for you are a misnomer: you have to provide those websites with the exact same details as say CEDR, the forms may be a little different but you can't avoid some input into the process. CEDR has an automatic process, so they do the chasing. But these sites tend to want to drum up business, and can be non specific when it suits.

Frequentflyer99

Although OT, I thought that this would be an interesting data point given the general hassle of getting EU261 compensation from all airlines.

Miss FF99 flew Ryanair STN-NCE last summer and arrived 3hrs 2 mins late (according to all the online systems and FR's own website), so qualified for EU261 by 2 mins. It took me 6 months to summon up the energy to commence what was inevitably likely to be a protracted battle. I put in the claim online one evening, had an acceptance of the claim within the hour.and the money was transferred into her account within the week.

Surely the way it is meant to work, but who would have thought that it would be FR showing us how ?!

In contrast, on my last BA flight a couple of weeks ago, our departure was delayed 2hrs 20 mins but no refreshments etc. were offered. Plainly not how it is meant to work.

Vasco Pridat

I have had a travel agent ticket sin lhr txl ticket in f. And ce to txl. Ba downgraded last leg to Y.. Due to. Delay.
They took care of EU261 compensation for rebooking and delay.. But say the downgrade compensation I have to claim wit TA .
Is that right?

corporate-wage-slave

The downgrade reimbursement is going to be a very small sum of money, I suspect.

There are 2 parts to downgrade reimbursement - one of which is BA's own involuntary refund calculation, which may well be the higher sum of money. And yes that would be done via the TA in this case. However if it is only the EC261 calculation, and you are only interested in this, you can insist that BA provide that reimbursement. It maybe your TA is better placed to extract that too, but the Regulation puts the onus on BA to actually do the reimbursement.

You should do your own calculation based on the posts upthread to work out approximately the amount you will get back.

So your options are
- get your TA on the case , go with the BA method, see if it's higher than EC261
- pursue BA for EC261 alone, and then go to CEDR if they won't do it. You would need to get BA to give "our answer will not change", see my CEDR case upthread.

tsg20

I have now heard back from BA again. The good news is that they have paid my (separate) delay claim in full. As for the downgrade claim, this time they've said:

"Thanks for getting back in contact. I'm sorry for the delay in our response.

I'm sorry to hear about the problems you've had as a result of your cancelled flight to Dallas in December. In order to discuss the refund you may be due, I would advise you to contact our Refunds team. The number to call is, 0344 493 0787, option one.

I'm sorry I can't do more to help you with this issue. If there's anything else you want to discuss, please don't hesitate to say. "

Is this helpful advice? I was hoping to do things via email if possible so as to have a record. Should I do as they suggest, or should I send back a firmer response?

Takiteasy

tsg20

Thanks! I'll do that.

UKtravelbear

Details matter as those determine how it is meant to work or not.

Duty of care under EU261 kicks in at 2 hours for short haul and 4 for band 3 flights. Also airlines don't have to provide it if doing so would delay the flight further. And it is more tricky if it is a rolling delay.

If you are on board then providing refreshments would deplete the catering for the actual flight causing later problems