Last edit by: corporate-wage-slave
Link to Text of the regulations in PDF format
Downgrades: Mennens case - calculation formula is in this post
787 cancellations due to Trent engine issues - CEDR ruling information from the post in the 2018 thread and onwards.
Downgrades: Mennens case - calculation formula is in this post
787 cancellations due to Trent engine issues - CEDR ruling information from the post in the 2018 thread and onwards.
The 2019 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004
#211
Join Date: May 2009
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Silver, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 452
Thanks to both of you. In fact I procrastinated on putting this in, trying to find the best wording (clearly a total waste of time), so they've only had it for 2 weeks. I'll reply doing my best to make it clear - the first sentence/paragraph of my original communication was "I would like to claim a refund under EC261 for a flight downgrade.", so I don't know that I can make it much clearer than that!
#212
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 2
Hi,
First time poster, but a long time lurker on the forums, which have always been a valuable source of information.
I'm hoping someone can help with my situation and advise me if there is any recourse to BA in this situation. I was on BA7338 last night from PRG to LCY, which was diverted eventually to SEN after a couple of attempts trying to get in to LCY.
We landed around 40/50 minutes after scheduled arrival time. But of course, quite far away from LCY. There were no BA staff available upon landing and so we shared a taxi to London Liverpool Street with another couple from our flight (we were told that there were no trains running from Southend at that time to central London). We then took a taxi to SW London from there.
In total, we incurred over Ł100 in extra costs and were quite significantly delayed in getting home. I am assuming these can be claimed back and would be deemed reasonable by BA? Is it possible to claim any compensation under EU261 for the delay as well?
Thanks in advance.
First time poster, but a long time lurker on the forums, which have always been a valuable source of information.
I'm hoping someone can help with my situation and advise me if there is any recourse to BA in this situation. I was on BA7338 last night from PRG to LCY, which was diverted eventually to SEN after a couple of attempts trying to get in to LCY.
We landed around 40/50 minutes after scheduled arrival time. But of course, quite far away from LCY. There were no BA staff available upon landing and so we shared a taxi to London Liverpool Street with another couple from our flight (we were told that there were no trains running from Southend at that time to central London). We then took a taxi to SW London from there.
In total, we incurred over Ł100 in extra costs and were quite significantly delayed in getting home. I am assuming these can be claimed back and would be deemed reasonable by BA? Is it possible to claim any compensation under EU261 for the delay as well?
Thanks in advance.
#213
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
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I can't see the reason for the diversion, but I presume it was due to the weather last night. If so then you would not get any compensation since that is Extraordinary Circumstances, particularly if the flight crew had made a few attempts before the diversion. And from this map of your flight, I don't think it was from want of trying.
Now for the taxis, I think you were poorly advised here, if it happens again you best go over to the station to check, it's just outside the terminal door. BA.com says you arrived at 20:50 but the last train from Southend is at 23:14, there are 7 services after your arrival time. BA would normally expect you to take public transport here but they will pay up to Ł50 for taxi fares. Now under EC261 Right to Care provisions there is no such limit, so if there really were no train services last night and therefore taxi was your only option, that would be different, but it would still require a bit of a fight. If you were intending to take a taxi home anyway last night then maybe you're not too much out of pocket.
#214
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Krakow
Programs: BAEC Silver, Miles and More(FTL), IHG(Platinum), Accor, HHonors(Diamond), SPG, Hertz Five Star
Posts: 5,921
This is not BA related but I wondered if you can help
SA ticketed (083 ticket)
was due to arrive at FRA at 06:15 from JNB and leave from FRA at 07:00 on LOT to WAW (yes 45 minutes is a legal connection time for this transfer), due to arrive in warsaw at 08:50
Inboound landed at 06:20 and doors opened around 06:29. I cleared passport control, was in security at 06:41. I was at the gate by 06:50 9which I thought was impressive) but as it was a bus gate had missed the last bus by 5 minutes.
Was rebooked on the 10:35 which arrived at 12:42
So I am just shy of 4 hours late, and ticketed and arrived from JNB on a non EU carrier
Am I due anything?
SA ticketed (083 ticket)
was due to arrive at FRA at 06:15 from JNB and leave from FRA at 07:00 on LOT to WAW (yes 45 minutes is a legal connection time for this transfer), due to arrive in warsaw at 08:50
Inboound landed at 06:20 and doors opened around 06:29. I cleared passport control, was in security at 06:41. I was at the gate by 06:50 9which I thought was impressive) but as it was a bus gate had missed the last bus by 5 minutes.
Was rebooked on the 10:35 which arrived at 12:42
So I am just shy of 4 hours late, and ticketed and arrived from JNB on a non EU carrier
Am I due anything?
#215
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
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MCT at 45 minutes for FRA is barmy unless it was going to be in the same zone and airbridged both ways, but you will know that better than me!
#216
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Krakow
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The LOT flight I was only 17 minutes late arriving in WAW, but 3hrs 50mins behind when I should have arrived because the SAA flight was 10 to 15 late 9which was because we waited for 20 connecting PAX in Jburg
#217
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Germany
Programs: BA GGL, CCR - TK G
Posts: 809
A general question came up today when browsing the net about EU261 delays..
pretty much all the "we take care of it" sites about flight compensation state: more than 3h delay for a type 3 flight = cancellation and therefore you are entitled the 600 euros.
flyertalk wiki is the only source I could find that says .. type 3 flights get 600 after 4h and 50% less between 3 and 4h.
now I looked into the actual EU261 pdf.. and to me it sounds kinda weird.
it says - like all the paid flightright sites say - a delay of more than 3h is treated like a cancellation and therefore you are entitled to 600euro.
BUT if the airline offers an alternative flight that brings you to your destination THEN they can cut the compensation by 50% (Art. 7/2)
What do i understand wrong?
pretty much all the "we take care of it" sites about flight compensation state: more than 3h delay for a type 3 flight = cancellation and therefore you are entitled the 600 euros.
flyertalk wiki is the only source I could find that says .. type 3 flights get 600 after 4h and 50% less between 3 and 4h.
now I looked into the actual EU261 pdf.. and to me it sounds kinda weird.
it says - like all the paid flightright sites say - a delay of more than 3h is treated like a cancellation and therefore you are entitled to 600euro.
BUT if the airline offers an alternative flight that brings you to your destination THEN they can cut the compensation by 50% (Art. 7/2)
What do i understand wrong?
#218
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
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it says - like all the paid flightright sites say - a delay of more than 3h is treated like a cancellation and therefore you are entitled to 600euro.
BUT if the airline offers an alternative flight that brings you to your destination THEN they can cut the compensation by 50% (Art. 7/2)
What do i understand wrong?
These sites that offer to do the work for you are a misnomer: you have to provide those websites with the exact same details as say CEDR, the forms may be a little different but you can't avoid some input into the process. CEDR has an automatic process, so they do the chasing. But these sites tend to want to drum up business, and can be non specific when it suits.
#219
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: UK (currently)
Programs: BA Gold (and many other greater and lesser distinctions)
Posts: 7,208
Although OT, I thought that this would be an interesting data point given the general hassle of getting EU261 compensation from all airlines.
Miss FF99 flew Ryanair STN-NCE last summer and arrived 3hrs 2 mins late (according to all the online systems and FR's own website), so qualified for EU261 by 2 mins. It took me 6 months to summon up the energy to commence what was inevitably likely to be a protracted battle. I put in the claim online one evening, had an acceptance of the claim within the hour.and the money was transferred into her account within the week.
Surely the way it is meant to work, but who would have thought that it would be FR showing us how ?!
In contrast, on my last BA flight a couple of weeks ago, our departure was delayed 2hrs 20 mins but no refreshments etc. were offered. Plainly not how it is meant to work.
Miss FF99 flew Ryanair STN-NCE last summer and arrived 3hrs 2 mins late (according to all the online systems and FR's own website), so qualified for EU261 by 2 mins. It took me 6 months to summon up the energy to commence what was inevitably likely to be a protracted battle. I put in the claim online one evening, had an acceptance of the claim within the hour.and the money was transferred into her account within the week.
Surely the way it is meant to work, but who would have thought that it would be FR showing us how ?!
In contrast, on my last BA flight a couple of weeks ago, our departure was delayed 2hrs 20 mins but no refreshments etc. were offered. Plainly not how it is meant to work.
#220
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Germany
Programs: BA GGL, CCR - TK G
Posts: 809
Compensation from airline or ta
I have had a travel agent ticket sin lhr txl ticket in f. And ce to txl. Ba downgraded last leg to Y.. Due to. Delay.
They took care of EU261 compensation for rebooking and delay.. But say the downgrade compensation I have to claim wit TA .
Is that right?
They took care of EU261 compensation for rebooking and delay.. But say the downgrade compensation I have to claim wit TA .
Is that right?
#221
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
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There are 2 parts to downgrade reimbursement - one of which is BA's own involuntary refund calculation, which may well be the higher sum of money. And yes that would be done via the TA in this case. However if it is only the EC261 calculation, and you are only interested in this, you can insist that BA provide that reimbursement. It maybe your TA is better placed to extract that too, but the Regulation puts the onus on BA to actually do the reimbursement.
You should do your own calculation based on the posts upthread to work out approximately the amount you will get back.
So your options are
- get your TA on the case , go with the BA method, see if it's higher than EC261
- pursue BA for EC261 alone, and then go to CEDR if they won't do it. You would need to get BA to give "our answer will not change", see my CEDR case upthread.
#222
Join Date: May 2009
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Silver, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 452
I have now heard back from BA again. The good news is that they have paid my (separate) delay claim in full. As for the downgrade claim, this time they've said:
"Thanks for getting back in contact. I'm sorry for the delay in our response.
I'm sorry to hear about the problems you've had as a result of your cancelled flight to Dallas in December. In order to discuss the refund you may be due, I would advise you to contact our Refunds team. The number to call is, 0344 493 0787, option one.
I'm sorry I can't do more to help you with this issue. If there's anything else you want to discuss, please don't hesitate to say. "
Is this helpful advice? I was hoping to do things via email if possible so as to have a record. Should I do as they suggest, or should I send back a firmer response?
"Thanks for getting back in contact. I'm sorry for the delay in our response.
I'm sorry to hear about the problems you've had as a result of your cancelled flight to Dallas in December. In order to discuss the refund you may be due, I would advise you to contact our Refunds team. The number to call is, 0344 493 0787, option one.
I'm sorry I can't do more to help you with this issue. If there's anything else you want to discuss, please don't hesitate to say. "
Is this helpful advice? I was hoping to do things via email if possible so as to have a record. Should I do as they suggest, or should I send back a firmer response?
#223
Join Date: Jul 2014
Programs: Mucci de l'Arbitrage
Posts: 927
I have now heard back from BA again. The good news is that they have paid my (separate) delay claim in full. As for the downgrade claim, this time they've said:
"Thanks for getting back in contact. I'm sorry for the delay in our response.
I'm sorry to hear about the problems you've had as a result of your cancelled flight to Dallas in December. In order to discuss the refund you may be due, I would advise you to contact our Refunds team. The number to call is, 0344 493 0787, option one.
I'm sorry I can't do more to help you with this issue. If there's anything else you want to discuss, please don't hesitate to say. "
Is this helpful advice? I was hoping to do things via email if possible so as to have a record. Should I do as they suggest, or should I send back a firmer response?
"Thanks for getting back in contact. I'm sorry for the delay in our response.
I'm sorry to hear about the problems you've had as a result of your cancelled flight to Dallas in December. In order to discuss the refund you may be due, I would advise you to contact our Refunds team. The number to call is, 0344 493 0787, option one.
I'm sorry I can't do more to help you with this issue. If there's anything else you want to discuss, please don't hesitate to say. "
Is this helpful advice? I was hoping to do things via email if possible so as to have a record. Should I do as they suggest, or should I send back a firmer response?
As to the downgrade, they seem to be playing deaf (and I am sure this is willingly rather than mistakenly) to the fact you are claiming downgrade compo under EC261 and not under their own fare recalculation. Remember their own fare recalc has nothing to do with EC261 calculation.
I would indeed NOT call them and instead reply something short along the lines of:
“Thank you for your answer. In respect of the downgrade portion of my claim, may I remind you once again that I am requesting the calculation of the refund to be made according to the methodology of regulation EC261. Here are my calculations of the refund due: [...]
Please note this constitute a letter before action and that should you continue to ignore the request for the calculation to be made under the EC261 methodology, I will as a next step action CEDR or MCOL. Best regards”
#224
Join Date: May 2009
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Silver, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 452
Thanks! I'll do that.
#225
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Brighton. UK
Programs: BA Gold / VS /IHG Diamond & Ambassador
Posts: 14,197
Duty of care under EU261 kicks in at 2 hours for short haul and 4 for band 3 flights. Also airlines don't have to provide it if doing so would delay the flight further. And it is more tricky if it is a rolling delay.
If you are on board then providing refreshments would deplete the catering for the actual flight causing later problems