Crampedin13A

It's got to the point now that I'm actually taking BA up on their offers to use Avios to knock the price down. A year ago I would never have used this option. The UuA and Avios redemption surcharges (under the guise of tax) ex-NA (Canada is being gouged too) along with really high I fares compared to ex-EU and even ex-UK make it that I'm finding planning my NA -Europe trips to include nesting the cheap ex-EU fares and using the Avios against the ex-NA purchases to bring the prices down to something remotely affordable.

Dave Noble

It lost a court case due to, iirc, its misrepresentation of the surcharge as being something other than a carrier imposed surcharge

Unlike some countries, the UK and US are happy to allow the airlines to disguise their fares and lead people to infer that they are taxes - what the airline is not able to get away with is calling it a fuel surcharge ever since the surcharge ceased to have any relationship to price of fuel

golfmad

Here's an update of where I've got to so far.

I went back to BA and disputed the assertion that the extra $200 was a government imposed tax. I didn't hear anything for a week so I contacted them again and received a call from the same lady who contacted me the first time. She said the best way to get to the bottom of it was to put me onto someone in the GGL team to 'explain'. The lady in the GGL team started off with the usual explanation that after an upgrade the taxes/fees need to be recalculated and that this resulted in the additional $200. I explained to her that this wasn't part of the normal taxes/fees recalculation which used to result in a couple of bucks either way based on a change in the exchange rate but rather a new charge imposed by the carrier. She undertook to find out more.

She did apologize for the incorrect information given to me in the past and confirmed that this is definitely not a government imposed tax. She was also told that the additional charge was because the underlying CW fare was discounted and not full fare. She said if it had been a full fare then extra charge would not have been imposed for the upgrade. I disputed that and said I thought it was highly unlikely.

A short while later she called me back to say that it's now being investigated by a senior manager to check it's correct. I asked her to try to find out why BA appears to be imposing a new tax on upgrades from CW to F from the US as it significantly devalues the benefit of receiving a GUF. The saga continues. I will update once I hear more.

JAXBA

Here are the Amadeus fare quotes for new J class and F class oneways out of JFK. As you can easily see, there is a USD200.00 difference in YQ.

Code:

------------------------------------------------------------
     AL FLGT  BK   DATE  TIME  FARE BASIS      NVB  NVA   BG
 NYC
 LON BA   178 J    15NOV 0805  J1N0C9S1                   2P

USD  8397.00      15NOV19NYC BA LON Q12.00 8385.00J1N0C9S1
                  NUC8397.00END ROE1.000000
USD   553.00-YQ   XT USD 5.60-AY USD 4.50-XF JFK4.50
USD    18.60-US
USD    10.10-XT
USD  8978.70

Code:

------------------------------------------------------------
     AL FLGT  BK   DATE  TIME  FARE BASIS      NVB  NVA   BG
 NYC
 LON BA   178 F    15NOV 0805  F1N0C9S1                   3P

USD 11813.00      15NOV19NYC BA LON Q12.00 11801.00F1N0C9S1
                  NUC11813.00END ROE1.000000
USD   753.00-YQ   XT USD 5.60-AY USD 4.50-XF JFK4.50
USD    18.60-US
USD    10.10-XT
USD 12594.70

I've no idea why there would be any internal misunderstanding of what YQ is.

KARFA

Agreed. I can’t see why they are struggling to understand what it is. It’s clear to me with access to the basic tools I can access.

pareto

I booked a cash flight in J before this madness began. I was lucky to get an UuA upgrade to F in one direction a couple of weeks later without any additional YQ.

I found availability for my remaining J segment to UuA to F, but was told I'd need to pay $500 + the avios to upgrade. This seems to be the difference between current YQ for RT F and the YQ I paid. Is that the correct way to calculate it? I was expecting $200, not $500!

KARFA

JAXBA

Quote:

Originally Posted by pareto

This seems to be the difference between current YQ for RT F and the YQ I paid. Is that the correct way to calculate it?

Yes it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KARFA

I think they are recalculating taxes/fees/charges for the whole booking and charging what is now due for everything. When TFC is recalculated it is for all flights in a booking not just the upgraded one.

Correct.

pareto

Thanks. The $500 total is because my cash booking was before the J YQ increase. So I'd pay for the J increase and the F increase in both directions even though I'm only looking to upgrade in one direction. Shame. Can't justify that.

golfmad

I had another bizarre example tonight. I made a booking in J for April originating from and returning to JFK.

There's availability in F on the return daytime leg to LHR-JFK so I called to use a GUF1. After my previous travails I expected a $200 charge so to do. However, the lady on the GGL line quoted me $400 with the usual spiel that it was a US government imposed tax because I was originating from the US. I pushed back and diplomatically enlightened her it was actually a BA charge, was nothing to do with the US government and should be $200 not $400. She went away again and calculated it manually insisting it was $400. I asked her to escalate it and she came back a few minutes later saying they would waive all charges and just take the GUF1 to process the upgrade (which was just like the good old days). A positive outcome but it's really all very odd and tacky.

Reetmafreen

Globaliser

If you booked AA codes on AA fares on a ticket issued by AA (as this sentence suggests may have been the case), wouldn't it be AA rules and policies that govern these questions?

Reetmafreen

Ruth4325

KARFA

I have just done some dummy bookings for EDI-LHR-JFK rtn in J and F. Not sure I am seeing much difference in TFC when adding EDI connections? What dates are you looking at?

EDI-LHR-JFK rtn in J
Air Passenger Duty - United Kingdom GBP 172.00
Animal & Plant Health User Fee (Aphis) - USA GBP 3.10
Passenger Civil Aviation Security Service Fee - USA GBP 4.30
Immigration User Fee - USA GBP 5.40
Transportation Tax(Arrival) - USA GBP 14.40
Customs User Fee - USA GBP 4.50
Transportation Tax(Departure) - USA GBP 14.40
Passenger Service Charge - United Kingdom GBP 46.25
Passenger Facility Charge GBP 3.50
Carrier imposed charge GBP 400.00
-------------------------------------------------
Total taxes, fees, carrier imposed charges GBP 667.85

EDI-LHR-JFK rtn in F
Air Passenger Duty - United Kingdom GBP 172.00
Animal & Plant Health User Fee (Aphis) - USA GBP 3.10
Passenger Civil Aviation Security Service Fee - USA GBP 4.30
Immigration User Fee - USA GBP 5.40
Transportation Tax(Arrival) - USA GBP 14.40
Customs User Fee - USA GBP 4.50
Transportation Tax(Departure) - USA GBP 14.40
Passenger Service Charge - United Kingdom GBP 46.25
Passenger Facility Charge GBP 3.50
Carrier imposed charge GBP 400.00
-------------------------------------------------
Total taxes, fees, carrier imposed charges GBP 667.85

LHR-JFK rtn in F
Air Passenger Duty - United Kingdom GBP 172.00
Animal & Plant Health User Fee (Aphis) - USA GBP 3.10
Passenger Civil Aviation Security Service Fee - USA GBP 4.30
Immigration User Fee - USA GBP 5.40
Transportation Tax(Arrival) - USA GBP 14.40
Customs User Fee - USA GBP 4.50
Transportation Tax(Departure) - USA GBP 14.40
Passenger Service Charge - United Kingdom GBP 46.62
Passenger Facility Charge GBP 3.50
Carrier imposed charge GBP 400.00
-------------------------------------------------
Total taxes, fees, carrier imposed charges GBP 668.22