Involuntary denial of boarding, please help
May 4, 2018, 9:44 pm
#346
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: London
Programs: Hilton, IHG - BA, GA, LH, QR, SV, TK
Posts: 17,008
Voluntarily doing things is one thing. Creating (including indirectly) an obligation is another.
It's one thing if the cabin baggage limit is 7 kg like it is on some airlines, but it is quite another when the limit is as much as 23 kg and if the airline created an (even unwritten/unspoken) expectation that cabin crew members will help if one brings on board a bag that is too heavy to lift in the absence of any disability or other issues that would prevent you from handling your own bag.
Hence the clear requirement that you must be able to lift your bags into the overhead locker by yourself which seems sensible.
https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...age-allowances
Cabin crew members by and large are helpful people by nature and they do tend to help but it wouldn't be a good idea for us to rely on their goodwill or other passengers' to stow our luggage given the clear requirements, and I would be pleased that crew members would have a 'get out clause without any blame' to not have to lift heavy bags for most passengers, especially with those with helpful nature potentially putting themselves at risk by wanting to help.
(Obviously those who cannot do so due to disability would be helped one way or another and so they should, although admittedly I think it would be sensible to make it as light as reasonably possible, as most people would.)
It's one thing if the cabin baggage limit is 7 kg like it is on some airlines, but it is quite another when the limit is as much as 23 kg and if the airline created an (even unwritten/unspoken) expectation that cabin crew members will help if one brings on board a bag that is too heavy to lift in the absence of any disability or other issues that would prevent you from handling your own bag.
Hence the clear requirement that you must be able to lift your bags into the overhead locker by yourself which seems sensible.
https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...age-allowances
Cabin crew members by and large are helpful people by nature and they do tend to help but it wouldn't be a good idea for us to rely on their goodwill or other passengers' to stow our luggage given the clear requirements, and I would be pleased that crew members would have a 'get out clause without any blame' to not have to lift heavy bags for most passengers, especially with those with helpful nature potentially putting themselves at risk by wanting to help.
(Obviously those who cannot do so due to disability would be helped one way or another and so they should, although admittedly I think it would be sensible to make it as light as reasonably possible, as most people would.)
The airline creates an expectation that you'll be on your own when it comes to bag stowing, but doesn't go as far as to say you won't get assistance.
However, crew do routinely assist passengers stow bags, and manhandle baggage themselves to make best use of space available.
I understand crew are told they are not required to do this, but at the same time are not forbidden from doing it.
May 7, 2018, 1:39 pm
#347
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: London
Programs: BAEC-GGL, GFL, *A Gold, Hilton Diamond , IHG Diamond/Ambassador
Posts: 244
Just took BA6 from NRT to LHR. (G-ZBKA)
As my wife and I boarded we got the (welcome in W or J, not in F) gate BLEEP - "Seat Check".....
... having read this thread I was a bit worried ...
We had 1A and 2A allocated. The seat check was to move us to 1K and 2K, because 1A was broken. Phew...
... but indicated to me that F seat breakage might not be infrequent... and made me wonder if it was ZBKA at SJC...
I have an A380 F coming up next week followed by a 777 HND to LHR F the week after - fingers crossed!
As my wife and I boarded we got the (welcome in W or J, not in F) gate BLEEP - "Seat Check".....
... having read this thread I was a bit worried ...
We had 1A and 2A allocated. The seat check was to move us to 1K and 2K, because 1A was broken. Phew...
... but indicated to me that F seat breakage might not be infrequent... and made me wonder if it was ZBKA at SJC...
I have an A380 F coming up next week followed by a 777 HND to LHR F the week after - fingers crossed!
May 8, 2018, 2:51 am
#348
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 50
Just to keep everyone updated: I have not heard back from BA yet. I am going to try to contact them today and if this fails will move on to contacting people at a higher level.
If anyone here happens to have a method of contact for anyone senior at BA or could direct their attention towards this thread I would greatly appreciate it.
If anyone here happens to have a method of contact for anyone senior at BA or could direct their attention towards this thread I would greatly appreciate it.
May 8, 2018, 6:04 am
#349
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Rhineland-Palatinate
Programs: *A Gold (A3), HHonor Gold
Posts: 5,703
Thanks for coming back. While sad this is not surprising to hear they have not contacted you back yet.
I would not send a link of this thread: this is way too long. You need to have a short summary at hand that highlights the facts and cut the feelings (easier said than done). Disclosure : I am head of customer support at a company. I would never read something as long as this thread.
I am also afraid that directing towards someone senior at BA would fail. Your story also contains some elements which are not relevant to BA but to HAL. I stand that you need to involve politician and/or media. You can always talk to Nikki Fox (BBC correspondant for the rights of disabled people) and wish to not be mentioned by name or anything that could identify you and which disability you suffer from.
I would not send a link of this thread: this is way too long. You need to have a short summary at hand that highlights the facts and cut the feelings (easier said than done). Disclosure : I am head of customer support at a company. I would never read something as long as this thread.
I am also afraid that directing towards someone senior at BA would fail. Your story also contains some elements which are not relevant to BA but to HAL. I stand that you need to involve politician and/or media. You can always talk to Nikki Fox (BBC correspondant for the rights of disabled people) and wish to not be mentioned by name or anything that could identify you and which disability you suffer from.
May 8, 2018, 6:17 am
#350
Join Date: May 2006
Location: 5 miles from EMA
Programs: BD, BAEC Pleb, VS Pleb, Accor Pleb, HHonors Gold, Big White Season Pass
Posts: 5,904
Just to keep everyone updated: I have not heard back from BA yet. I am going to try to contact them today and if this fails will move on to contacting people at a higher level.
If anyone here happens to have a method of contact for anyone senior at BA or could direct their attention towards this thread I would greatly appreciate it.
If anyone here happens to have a method of contact for anyone senior at BA or could direct their attention towards this thread I would greatly appreciate it.
May 8, 2018, 6:40 am
#351
Community Director
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Norwich, UK
Programs: A3*G, BA Gold, BD Gold (in memoriam), IHG Diamond Ambassador
Posts: 8,480
Just to keep everyone updated: I have not heard back from BA yet. I am going to try to contact them today and if this fails will move on to contacting people at a higher level.
If anyone here happens to have a method of contact for anyone senior at BA or could direct their attention towards this thread I would greatly appreciate it.
If anyone here happens to have a method of contact for anyone senior at BA or could direct their attention towards this thread I would greatly appreciate it.
You are, honestly, being far too gentle with BA here. The bottom line is that unless there is a legal case under either EU or US law no-one in BA will care about talking to you at this stage. They've already made their disdain for your situation wholly apparent. Disgraceful though everyone here finds that on a human level, you are dealing with a multi-billion Dollar company that simply doesn't function that way.
Every one of us here is wholly insignificant in the entire scheme of BA - you will find plenty of Gold card holders or higher (me included) who have had to take BA to court to claim money from cases that would appear to totally straightforward and beyond any legal defence.
You have reached the stage where you either need to consider taking that legal action with the proper advice behind you or dropping this and making your own commercial decision about whether or not you continue to patronise BA. Both of those will hurt BA in the pocket, and that is the only satisfaction you'll get if you're not planning to expose their lack of caring through the press.
Those legal choices are not easy given the circumstances are not as many of us first assumed. Success is certainly not guaranteed, and in such cases you can be sure BA will fight hard. Based on that background, they are simply not going to respond to another polite enquiry a little further up the food chain - as far as they're concerned, from a CS viewpoint this is case closed.
May 8, 2018, 7:08 am
#352
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 50
Another quick update: I managed to speak to someone on the phone from customer relations who was very understanding and reassured me that the case definitely hasn't been closed. In fact it has been escalated and they are waiting for a response from their legal department, which they are now chasing up and have asked me to submit receipts for expenses.
I know some of you think my gentle stance is misplaced and I do appreciate all the advice (from people who are far more knowledgeable and experienced than myself), but I am going to allow BA a bit more time to make this right.
I know some of you think my gentle stance is misplaced and I do appreciate all the advice (from people who are far more knowledgeable and experienced than myself), but I am going to allow BA a bit more time to make this right.
May 8, 2018, 7:23 am
#353
Join Date: Aug 2013
Programs: BAEC Gold, IHG Spire Elite
Posts: 1,713
Another quick update: I managed to speak to someone on the phone from customer relations who was very understanding and reassured me that the case definitely hasn't been closed. In fact it has been escalated and they are waiting for a response from their legal department, which they are now chasing up and have asked me to submit receipts for expenses.
I know some of you think my gentle stance is misplaced and I do appreciate all the advice (from people who are far more knowledgeable and experienced than myself), but I am going to allow BA a bit more time to make this right.
I know some of you think my gentle stance is misplaced and I do appreciate all the advice (from people who are far more knowledgeable and experienced than myself), but I am going to allow BA a bit more time to make this right.
May 8, 2018, 7:33 am
#354
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: All over the place often South Wales and Lake District
Programs: BA Gold for Life Accor Platinum
Posts: 4,552
Just to keep everyone updated: I have not heard back from BA yet. I am going to try to contact them today and if this fails will move on to contacting people at a higher level.
If anyone here happens to have a method of contact for anyone senior at BA or could direct their attention towards this thread I would greatly appreciate it.
If anyone here happens to have a method of contact for anyone senior at BA or could direct their attention towards this thread I would greatly appreciate it.
when I contacted the twitter team by direct message about a ticket change issue I did send them a link to this thread.
they thanked me fo my attention in the other matter and pointedly made no reference at all to my link.
I think for one reason or another this forum has lost its importance as a means of meaningful feedback to BA. In the past when I’ve referred them to a thread here they have looked and come back to me.
May 8, 2018, 7:35 am
#355
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: UK
Programs: Lemonia. Best Greek ever.
Posts: 2,274
Dear OP,
I am afraid that BA is one of the worst suppliers for Customer Service and Service Recovery. Amazon has many, many more customers than BA and they are good. BA are pathetic.
You might get somewhere with your softly-softly approach, but moving from Customer service who are, it would appear, instructed to reject most claims whether or not they have merit, (sometimes more than once) to the legal team, whose instructions are to save BA money is not a good sign.
As others have said, the Legal approach by you has some risk, although BA clearly ignored their duty to you to prioritise you, and I suspect that a media approach might be your best way forward.
I hope I am wrong, but..............
I am afraid that BA is one of the worst suppliers for Customer Service and Service Recovery. Amazon has many, many more customers than BA and they are good. BA are pathetic.
You might get somewhere with your softly-softly approach, but moving from Customer service who are, it would appear, instructed to reject most claims whether or not they have merit, (sometimes more than once) to the legal team, whose instructions are to save BA money is not a good sign.
As others have said, the Legal approach by you has some risk, although BA clearly ignored their duty to you to prioritise you, and I suspect that a media approach might be your best way forward.
I hope I am wrong, but..............
May 8, 2018, 7:46 am
#356
Join Date: May 2006
Location: 5 miles from EMA
Programs: BD, BAEC Pleb, VS Pleb, Accor Pleb, HHonors Gold, Big White Season Pass
Posts: 5,904
when I contacted the twitter team by direct message about a ticket change issue I did send them a link to this thread.
they thanked me fo my attention in the other matter and pointedly made no reference at all to my link.
I think for one reason or another this forum has lost its importance as a means of meaningful feedback to BA. In the past when I’ve referred them to a thread here they have looked and come back to me.
May 8, 2018, 8:05 am
#357
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: All over the place often South Wales and Lake District
Programs: BA Gold for Life Accor Platinum
Posts: 4,552
It was like they were minded not to come to FT, even though FT has been part of the social media team's remit (I've been told as such by the twitter team in the past). It stood out as they had already thanked me in a post before that so the repetition was like saying thank you for the one thing, bt we can't go to the other one, but I'm unable to say that to you directly.
May 8, 2018, 9:15 am
#358
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Stockholm, Sweden.
Programs: BA, JAL
Posts: 689
BA needs to treat its disabled passengers much better. This story is very upsetting. I think after this mishandling, it should be a priority to prevent this from happening again. Their stance, while predictable, is very disappointing. They need to resolve this. I am no expert, but the equality act should ensure that there is some level of fairness and I cannot see this here.
May 9, 2018, 7:47 pm
#359
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: ORD
Programs: US Air, UA BA LH AI DELTA MARRIOTT CHOICE SGP
Posts: 9,883
BA needs to treat its disabled passengers much better. This story is very upsetting. I think after this mishandling, it should be a priority to prevent this from happening again. Their stance, while predictable, is very disappointing. They need to resolve this. I am no expert, but the equality act should ensure that there is some level of fairness and I cannot see this here.
It does not need any expert to understand that OP was wronged and no one took action to stop the damage. Unfortunately it looks like the Managers have truly forgotten the focus on SERVICE.
May 9, 2018, 8:26 pm
#360
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
That is the nature of the fallout from EC 261/2004. If OP thinks that having this matter referred to "legal" is a good thing, it is not. It simply means that it is no longer a customer service issue in BA's eyes (if it has eyes) and is being treated as a purely legal matter. I presume that this means that someone will sort out just how the Regulation applies and what OP is due. If anything is due, someone will be in touch with OP for bank details to arrange the transfer.
That will be based on an evaulation of OP's submission and the writeup from staff on the ground. If those diverge, BA will likely back up its staff unless what they have created is palpably false.
I would not look further than that as it will only frustrate OP.
That will be based on an evaulation of OP's submission and the writeup from staff on the ground. If those diverge, BA will likely back up its staff unless what they have created is palpably false.
I would not look further than that as it will only frustrate OP.