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Would you turn down a really good job if the travel policy was all Y?

Would you turn down a really good job if the travel policy was all Y?

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Old Jun 26, 18, 9:43 am
  #211  
 
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Reality check from the Nordics. It is very uncommon, if not exceptional, for anyone to travel business class in the Nordic countries for work purposes. It is considered a waste of money and superficial. Only top executives of international companies in Finland / Sweden / Norway would dare travel business class. Any other company travel in business would end up with very bad reputational risk and headlines in tabloids. Even the president of Finland usually travels economy class...
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Old Jun 26, 18, 11:09 am
  #212  
 
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That would Finnish me.
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Old Jun 26, 18, 11:13 am
  #213  
 
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Originally Posted by peteglobus View Post
Reality check from the Nordics. It is very uncommon, if not exceptional, for anyone to travel business class in the Nordic countries for work purposes. It is considered a waste of money and superficial. Only top executives of international companies in Finland / Sweden / Norway would dare travel business class. Any other company travel in business would end up with very bad reputational risk and headlines in tabloids. Even the president of Finland usually travels economy class...
Originally Posted by Ancient Observer View Post
That would Finnish me.
There's Norway I would accept that.
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Old Jun 26, 18, 11:21 am
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Originally Posted by Paren View Post
There's Norway I would accept that.
Denmark my words, you surely don't have the Tampere to travel in economy... I wouldn't want to put the Bergen on your patience!
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Old Jun 26, 18, 11:45 am
  #215  
 
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Originally Posted by peteglobus View Post
Reality check from the Nordics. It is very uncommon, if not exceptional, for anyone to travel business class in the Nordic countries for work purposes. It is considered a waste of money and superficial. Only top executives of international companies in Finland / Sweden / Norway would dare travel business class. Any other company travel in business would end up with very bad reputational risk and headlines in tabloids. Even the president of Finland usually travels economy class...
I was working for a very well known Norwegian company!!

But the basic point is correct around the culture. Even with the more generous than normal policy, we frequently ended up paying more for J than F, which was total no-no.
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Old Jun 26, 18, 1:30 pm
  #216  
 
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Interesting thread. I'm talking to a company about a role where I'd need to take 8 long haul trips in Y (most with a connection), plus +/-12 short haul trips (some on Ryanair, some on company charter flights). Due to the location of the role, I'd also need to add on significant personal travel (sometimes direct with a LCC, sometimes connecting via a European hub). Travel policy depends on grade and they have made it clear that J isn't up for discussion on the long haul flights, but that W could be up for discussion - However, that would likely be reflected in their salary offer. So, how much would you sacrifice in salary if you knew that those W flights would likely be on flights where the J cabin was full so no opup possibility?
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Old Jun 26, 18, 1:54 pm
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Originally Posted by ptr120 View Post
Interesting thread. I'm talking to a company about a role where I'd need to take 8 long haul trips in Y (most with a connection), plus +/-12 short haul trips (some on Ryanair, some on company charter flights). Due to the location of the role, I'd also need to add on significant personal travel (sometimes direct with a LCC, sometimes connecting via a European hub). Travel policy depends on grade and they have made it clear that J isn't up for discussion on the long haul flights, but that W could be up for discussion - However, that would likely be reflected in their salary offer. So, how much would you sacrifice in salary if you knew that those W flights would likely be on flights where the J cabin was full so no opup possibility?
If the gig involves that much LH then the salary difference (or stock, whatever) would need to be life changing for me, i.e able to pay off chunk of mortgage etc.
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Old Jun 26, 18, 2:01 pm
  #218  
 
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Originally Posted by ptr120 View Post
Interesting thread. I'm talking to a company about a role where I'd need to take 8 long haul trips in Y (most with a connection), plus +/-12 short haul trips (some on Ryanair, some on company charter flights). Due to the location of the role, I'd also need to add on significant personal travel (sometimes direct with a LCC, sometimes connecting via a European hub). Travel policy depends on grade and they have made it clear that J isn't up for discussion on the long haul flights, but that W could be up for discussion - However, that would likely be reflected in their salary offer. So, how much would you sacrifice in salary if you knew that those W flights would likely be on flights where the J cabin was full so no opup possibility?
Not one dime, And I'd tell them that LH needed to be in J, If not, they can hire someone else.
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Old Jun 26, 18, 2:15 pm
  #219  
 
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Who is paying for your travel?

My company is a Y only policy for anyone below GVP. The exception is if you make 4 trips of 10+ hours on a single flight /year, you can fly Business if it is for internal company business. If the customer is paying for your travel, you cannot expect them to pay for you to fly Business Class.

I've flown Phoenix to Bangalore in Coach and lived to tell about it.
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Old Jun 26, 18, 4:59 pm
  #220  
 
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In terms of the OPs dilemma, I would remind them of the quote from Orbital (from the intro to Satan)

It is better to regret something you did do than regret something you didn't.

In this case, taking the offered job. I guess there's a big risk you'd kick yourself in a few years time if things aren't perfect career wise and you didn't take the role just because you didn't fancy long haul Y. I pay for upgrades on work trips sometimes, often AUPs, it doesn't hurt too much. With the uplifted salary you should do the same if possible when the need or desire is there.
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Old Jun 26, 18, 5:29 pm
  #221  
 
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The other possibility is negotiating time off to compensate. My standard policy is that I will get off a plane and start work right away if in Business class (or higher). If in Economy (or Premium Economy) LH, I'll plan on at least a day to recovery in each direction. Thankfully, I've had employers who were reasonable about these things and accommodated that.
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Old Jun 26, 18, 5:30 pm
  #222  
 
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Originally Posted by peteglobus View Post
Reality check from the Nordics. It is very uncommon, if not exceptional, for anyone to travel business class in the Nordic countries for work purposes. It is considered a waste of money and superficial. Only top executives of international companies in Finland / Sweden / Norway would dare travel business class. Any other company travel in business would end up with very bad reputational risk and headlines in tabloids. Even the president of Finland usually travels economy class...
my company has a large presence in Sweden. I know if more than one swedes who work there who negotiators J class travel (as per the rest of the company outside of Sweden). Both are VP level (which although senior is not a top executive IMO)
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Old Jun 26, 18, 6:27 pm
  #223  
 
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Originally Posted by Roadster Man View Post
More and more large and successful companies are going to Y class only. It's a fact of life and an easy cost to control. My reflection on reading some of the comments is that these folks must be REALLY valuable to be able to pick and choose which employer to work for based on their travel policies. In the real world, it is expected to fly from the US to EU on Y, arriving morning next day with meetings scheduled at 12:30 on the arrival day. That is SOP. Tired? Jet Lagged? Tough! You have a job to do! Working on Thursday in San Francisco with meeting in Boston on Friday? Take the red-eye in Y, get up and get to work in Boston. That is what coffee is for. As a father of four, weekends are of course paramount. But if meeting in EU start on Monday, I need to kill most of a Sunday to get there. If I won't go, there are plenty of people applying to HR every day for my job who will.
A rather miserable way of viewing life and work (I mean no personal offence). Sometimes I wonder how widespread this way of thinking is... Certain companies seem to be holding their employees ransom under the implicit threat of termination, which is further aggravated by the culture of debt typical of certain nations (ahem, shall we start with North America?).

There are plenty of companies out there that do not see employees as promptly replaceable, and plenty of Executives who do not share this perspective. I would never, ever want my team - at any level - to work under a similar culture. I don't see how depriving staff of sleep and rest, or even worse forcing them to sacrifice their family life, would ever lead to positive outcomes for the business in the long term. And, yes, I do consider them REALLY valuable.

For full disclosure, this is the managerial point of view of a large global company. I really wish people would stop thinking that perspectives like the one above are normal, or that they are "SOP". It is thankfully untrue.
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Old Jun 26, 18, 10:55 pm
  #224  
 
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Originally Posted by guycabellero View Post

I've flown Phoenix to Bangalore in Coach and lived to tell about it.
Good prep for Bangalore, tbh.
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Old Jun 26, 18, 11:05 pm
  #225  
 
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Originally Posted by flying_pig View Post
For full disclosure, this is the managerial point of view of a large global company. I really wish people would stop thinking that perspectives like the one above are normal, or that they are "SOP". It is thankfully untrue.
My organisation works with many large global organisations and I regret to say that the views you dismiss here are indeed normal among our customer base. They are far from unique values, but they are quite common.

So while this perspective may well be untrue in your reality, others are not so fortunate.
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