happyintheair

Hi all. I posted upthread about my cancelled LAX-LHR flight on Wed. I put a call in to the Gold line about it - got a call back, immediately stated it was eligible for compo, asked for IBAN/ SWIFT info, 600€ transferred to me, will be with me in 3-5 days,. Very impressed with BA on this occasion. Plenty of notice, a good re-route, and hands-up guv, our fault, here's the money due to you.

nallison

I think most people view 'reasonably prepared' as something better than complete meltdown due to a fairly small amount of snow. And that applies to their ground services and how they dealt with passengers as much as the actual flying.

There is a very large spectrum between perfect and where BA's performance fell that day.

Andriyko

Again, you are choosing to ignore a bunch of other meteorological and on-site information in order to fit your narrative - 'it was a little bit of snow, and airlines should have been prepared;' and talking in abstract forgetting that we are talking specifically about LHR that is at capacity and experiencing delays even in perfect weather conditions... How can we possibly discuss anything when we are having two different discussions? And, that's not even mentioning the words 'complete meltdown.'

Tobias-UK

BA235

nallison

Indeed, or maybe they will be. That's why I earlier said a court should decide. I assume you're OK with that.

Tobias-UK

TravellingSalesman

Now I'm curious. Do you have some numbers for this? I.e. proportion of cancelled flights for BA vs other operators at LHR?

nallison

Huh? No dragging involved, you chose to comment on my opinion. So I have no right of reply? Bizarre. But your double standards are hardly unnoticed here. What a wonderful ambassador you are.

Tobias-UK

EsherFlyer

I think we have to be careful not to conflate "reasonable expectation" with "commercially reasonable".

The type of weather event experienced may be predictable (on average) but sufficiently rare that BA decide that commercially they are better off not paying for / requiring from HAL mitigating services, and instead plan to pay the compensation / care costs when they arise. To then say that since that is a reasonable commercial decision no compensation is due seems to be giving BA (and others) two bites at the same cherry.

Given that de-icing equipment has been installed at LHR and we hardly ever get "proper" cold weather it seems reasonable to suggest it has been installed for just this type of event, and that the weather itself was therefore not exceptional. Arguing that buying a single machine with no operator is all that is needed to meet the "reasonable measures" test would seem to be an instant fail. So I think that just leaves whether it was deployed (in terms of right quantity, location, etc) and operated (speed to activate, sensible regime for throughput, etc) with reasonable skill to be determined.

ADDED: If BA / HAL could show that deicing has worked well in previous events (and they haven't materially changed the method used since) then I would see that as a good test that they have reasonable provision. Has that ever happened?

orbitmic

Personally - and speaking as a non-specialist - my intuition is also that snaxmuppet's job will be cut out for her/him on that one. Ultimately, temperature and icy conditions are weather it seems to me so it will necessarily imply a fairly complex/impressionistic demonstration to show that BA's organisational responsibility trumped/exceeded the extraordinary circumstances which they will undoubtedly invoke. That said, good luck to her/him and no harm in trying. My advice would be to try and find as many actual facts as you can because 'could have/should have' is not going to take you very far and BA may decide that this is worth properly fighting for in which case lawyers will dedicate significant time, skill and energy to undermining your case.

In any case, I'm mostly glad that the weather has now significantly improved. I must say that I was very lucky as I had a double transit including through Amsterdam, but it came just after the worst of the problems and I managed to make all of my flights. I hope everyone disrupted has now similarly managed to make it home or wherever it was where they were going. I think that sometimes, on Flyertalk, we take a bit too 'technical' a view of those things and when dealing with many of the people who write about major disruptions to their travel plans (even more so when it comes to the rare "less frequent flyers" that may come to the forum), we sometimes forget how it is to feel helpless, uninformed, and exhausted. I fly an average of about 4 flights a week, so as everyone can imagine, I have had my fair share of travel incidents. Yet, despite the experience and a fairly 'accepting' personality, I know how frustrating things can be when significant disruptions occur. This is especially true if loved ones are waiting on the other side of the flight, when mechanisms supposed to be in place (e.g. priority queues for rebooking, accessible phone lines, etc) are not working (which happens) and/or when employees dealing with your case do not really seem to care (which happens too and however understandable as a defence mechanism for them can be very depressing for the passenger).

I think that it is important to bear that background in mind in those threads. We are often answering people who are in the midst of a very unpleasant situation, and even when we can only deliver bad news to them, a bit of sympathy can go a long way in reminding them the world is not conspiring against them. Next to the rubbish bits frequent flying has occasionally sent my way, I have been lucky to experience random kindness in those tough situations as well, so I know how great it can feel too!

Wanderlust888

• Flight A. On Sunday 10th, I had a Avios Euro Traveller booking for Dusseldorf to London which was cancelled due to weather.
• Flight B. I then independently booked Frankfurt to London for the same day, Avios Club Europe, which was also cancelled due to weather.
• Flight C. I was then auto-rebooked from Frankfurt to London on Monday 11th, Club Europe, which I successfully flew on.

Can I claim "duty of care" on the Sunday night (hotel in Dusseldorf), and train to Frankfurt on Monday?
If so, do I lump all this together (refund of A. + hotel + train) or separate into two claims: A. refund and C. "duty of care"?
Can I claim from BA or travel insurance the difference in (points) cost between Euro Traveller and Club Europe?

Thank you

corporate-wage-slave

Yes, that looks OK, I'd put it as one claim. For the train, put in a note saying this is in respect of clause 8.3 of EC261/2004, that is the bit they may (and in my view incorrectly) challenge if it was an expensive fare.

Wanderlust888

Thank you. And separately from the above, where a passenger declines an auto-rebooked flight, does BA automatically refund without the need to make a claim?