'Which?' target BA for EC261 petition - please sign
Jul 1, 2017, 1:36 am
#121
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,676
Because, rightly or wrongly, BA isn't being seen in a positive light at the moment. BoB, negative newspaper articles, long haul catering changes and the recent IT meltdown have all contributed to this. I agree that it should be one rule for all though.
Now before I make this next statement this isn't directed at anyone in particular. I don't wish to offend or libel anyone.
Those defending BA and wanting to water down/scrap EU261: do you have a vested interest in BA or the airline industry?
As a purely leisure passenger I'm firmly on the side of the consumers, Which and EU261 here. I'd even say it doesn't go far enough but that's probably deeply unpopular around here.
Now before I make this next statement this isn't directed at anyone in particular. I don't wish to offend or libel anyone.
Those defending BA and wanting to water down/scrap EU261: do you have a vested interest in BA or the airline industry?
As a purely leisure passenger I'm firmly on the side of the consumers, Which and EU261 here. I'd even say it doesn't go far enough but that's probably deeply unpopular around here.
1) Has anyone suggested watering down EU261 or even scrapping it anywhere in this thread? Not sure I've read this myself.
2) Accusing people of vested interests is the sure fire way to turn a debate nasty. Failing to see other people's views and understand them without being able to think there's an ulterior motive is one of the great failings of our societies right now.
Just because people have a different point of view to you doesn't mean they have some ulterior motive.
I'm not a BA employee. I'm a business flyer who does a fair amount of leisure flying too. I've claimed EU261 3 times in the last 5 years and have encouraged others to claim. But I still don't think automatic payout is a good idea.
It *will* add costs to airlines and that either means reduced costs elsewhere or increased prices. Oddly enough businesses don't look at a reduced margin and go "well - that's ok then". Would it change some behaviours? yes of course it would - but only once they'd reduced costs and increased prices - and they wouldn't then set out to reverse those.
Automatic payout is also not consistent with the way the rest of our society acts. I cannot think of one single area where some travel organisation or other has been forced into automatic payment of compensation for something. (Virgin Trains being the notable travel exception where they have volunteered in very select circumstances - advanced ticket via their website or app).
Jul 1, 2017, 1:39 am
#122
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: London, UK
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 2,286
Because, rightly or wrongly, BA isn't being seen in a positive light at the moment. BoB, negative newspaper articles, long haul catering changes and the recent IT meltdown have all contributed to this. I agree that it should be one rule for all though.
Now before I make this next statement this isn't directed at anyone in particular. I don't wish to offend or libel anyone.
Those defending BA and wanting to water down/scrap EU261: do you have a vested interest in BA or the airline industry?
As a purely leisure passenger I'm firmly on the side of the consumers, Which and EU261 here. I'd even say it doesn't go far enough but that's probably deeply unpopular around here.
Now before I make this next statement this isn't directed at anyone in particular. I don't wish to offend or libel anyone.
Those defending BA and wanting to water down/scrap EU261: do you have a vested interest in BA or the airline industry?
As a purely leisure passenger I'm firmly on the side of the consumers, Which and EU261 here. I'd even say it doesn't go far enough but that's probably deeply unpopular around here.
Jul 1, 2017, 1:51 am
#123
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Northern England
Posts: 1,535
If automatic payment came in, its very likely this would go to the original payment method. I suspect a lot of business travellers would not then be happy, and also those booked via travel agents may see "admin fees" appearing that would reduce their payment.
Jul 1, 2017, 1:52 am
#124
Community Director
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Norwich, UK
Programs: A3*G, BA Gold, BD Gold (in memoriam), IHG Diamond Ambassador
Posts: 8,480
This seems to be an appropriate time to remind members that we treat each other with respect here, so the slinging of accusations of potential vested interest is inappropriate. Lest anyone is unaware, here's the rule we all agree to abide by:
NWIFlyer
Moderator - BA forum
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Disrupting a forum by repetitively posting comments of the same general theme or 'piling-on' by posting merely to reinforce or bump a prior post of a disruptive nature are both examples of disruptive posting and not permitted.
12.1 Friendly, Respectful and Welcoming
FlyerTalk is a community and is intended to be a friendly, helpful and collegial place.
Please post in a friendly, respectful, welcoming manner. 'Snarky,' unfriendly posts will not be allowed. If you don't have something constructive to contribute to a thread, please do not post.
Unhelpful posts, such as "Do a search" or those that merely comment on the worthiness of others' posts or threads are neither friendly nor welcoming and will not be allowed. If you can't be helpful or contribute substantive content to a thread, please refrain from posting.
12.2 Avoid Getting Personal
If you have a difference of opinion with another member, challenge the idea — NOT the person. Getting personal with another member is not allowed. Personal attacks, insults, baiting and flaming will not be tolerated.
FlyerTalk is a diverse, multi-cultural community. Expressions of prejudice or discrimination in any form are not permitted (such as those concerning race, nationality, religious belief, gender, sexual orientation, age, disability, etc).
If another member gets personal with you, do not retaliate. Retaliation may well subject you to the same discipline. Instead, please use the 'Alert a moderator to this thread' button in the lower-left-hand-corner of each post, send a note explaining your concern to the moderator team, and leave it to them to handle. Please also see Rule 22 — When you believe someone has violated the rules.
12.3 Disruptive or repetitive posting
Posts that are inflammatory, inciting or unnecessarily provocative are not allowed.
Disrupting a forum by repetitively posting comments of the same general theme or 'piling-on' by posting merely to reinforce or bump a prior post of a disruptive nature are both examples of disruptive posting and not permitted.
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Jul 1, 2017, 2:01 am
#125
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 536
I have a vested interest in airlines maintaining safe operations, something that EU261 is not fully compatible with: Particularly with regards to crew hours.
Jul 1, 2017, 3:41 am
#126
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: London
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 1,683
Tab, don't you think this is a positive selling point for EU airlines? I've seen remarks here along those lines. People that fly AA west, but BA home to get the EU261 protection.
Jul 1, 2017, 3:43 am
#127
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: London
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 1,683
I have no vested interest in this, but that's quite a statement. Is there evidence of EU261 leading to unsafe operations?
Jul 1, 2017, 3:50 am
#128
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: London, UK
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 2,286
Let's face it that on codeshares most people don't even know the operating carrier. BA1234 from JFK to LHR? That's a BA flight right? Uhhhh
Jul 1, 2017, 3:52 am
#129
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 8,774
One could spin it that way but I expect the numbers who do decide on this basis are so small that we aren't even talking about 0.1% of travellers.
Let's face it that on codeshares most people don't even know the operating carrier. BA1234 from JFK to LHR? That's a BA flight right? Uhhhh
Let's face it that on codeshares most people don't even know the operating carrier. BA1234 from JFK to LHR? That's a BA flight right? Uhhhh
Jul 1, 2017, 4:29 am
#131
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: London, UK
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 2,286
Not that it matters as the petition has about as much chance of doing anything as Alex Cruz has of introducing caviar, krug and showers on BA - but sincerely thank you for trying to push up the price of flights for everyone else and binding up EU carriers in higher costs and more regulation.
Jul 1, 2017, 4:49 am
#132
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 935
Not that it matters as the petition has about as much chance of doing anything as Alex Cruz has of introducing caviar, krug and showers on BA - but sincerely thank you for trying to push up the price of flights for everyone else and binding up EU carriers in higher costs and more regulation.
Your reliance on BA's obfuscation, lies and illegal rejection of claims for cheap flights says more about your attitude than the poster that has signed the petition. Not to worry though, you are fully aware of your rights and, I would assume, reject any attempt by BA or any other airline to compensate you given that it would increase the cost for some unknown passengers.
Jul 1, 2017, 5:09 am
#133
Join Date: May 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 5,380
Interesting article here about the worst offenders:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...ed-passengers/
CAA data shows the worst offender for losing cases brought to the CAA was Norwegian, followed by Vueling and Ryanair.
Emirates had an interesting twist - of the cases that were brought to the CAA, they then point blank refused to pay out 74% of the times that CAA ruled they should. United refused to pay in 42% of such cases.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...ed-passengers/
CAA data shows the worst offender for losing cases brought to the CAA was Norwegian, followed by Vueling and Ryanair.
Emirates had an interesting twist - of the cases that were brought to the CAA, they then point blank refused to pay out 74% of the times that CAA ruled they should. United refused to pay in 42% of such cases.
Jul 1, 2017, 5:53 am
#134
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
Article 7 says "the passenger shall receive compensation". Surely if your analysis was right it would say the passenger may claim compensation.
Also Article 14 refers to every passenger affected being given a notice. So what harm could it do if airlines were required to email travellers affected - they would only be complying with legislation (which we know they often don't do now from the data points on here).
Jul 1, 2017, 6:16 am
#135
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 536
There's been plenty of complaints to unions and it's been discussed in parliament.
(edit)Note, just in case Internet Brands does a PPruNe/Etihad: I'm not saying that BA does this.