27 May BA IT outage miscellaneous discussions thread
May 28, 2017, 12:35 am
#91
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ARN
Programs: SK EBG, BAEC Gold, LH FTL, FBP, CCG, HH Diamond
Posts: 1,533
One thing that really strikes me with this incident, is the fact that it seems passengers were not let out of the terminal in a timely fashion. If I understand the commenters correctly, they needed to queue to be let out of T5, which, if true, is just mind boggling.
Was that the case or was it just immigration that was a hold-up?
Was that the case or was it just immigration that was a hold-up?
May 28, 2017, 12:38 am
#92
Ambassador, British Airways; FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds, UK
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL, HH Diamond
Posts: 42,994
One thing that really strikes me with this incident, is the fact that it seems passengers were not let out of the terminal in a timely fashion. If I understand the commenters correctly, they needed to queue to be let out of T5, which, if true, is just mind boggling.
Was that the case or was it just immigration that was a hold-up?
Was that the case or was it just immigration that was a hold-up?
May 28, 2017, 1:34 am
#94
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: UK (currently)
Programs: BA Gold (and many other greater and lesser distinctions)
Posts: 7,212
One thing that I don't understand is the complete absence (AFAIK) of any BA reps doing media interviews. This was the number 1 news story on all the TV news channels last night, but I saw no BA rep interviewed to explain, apologise promise to make things better, etc etc. And the even more remarkable thing is that nobody from the media commented on the absence of such a rep.
It's shocking beyond belief that no info was given to pax in the terminal, but does BA value its commercial reputation so little, that it does not want to try and apologise publicly for the issues ??
It's shocking beyond belief that no info was given to pax in the terminal, but does BA value its commercial reputation so little, that it does not want to try and apologise publicly for the issues ??
May 28, 2017, 1:52 am
#95
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 49
Institutionalised lying, absurd cost cutting, abusive treatment of passengers and employees are the benchmarks of BA's and the IAG's CEOs. BA is financially 'robust' thanks to whittling down products and resources but its reputation is in tatters and the goodwill of customers, cabin crew etc is gone. Yesterday morning the cabin crew of the flight which of course was ultimately grounded at LHR were ordered not to tell passengers when they board that the flight would take off without their bags. Expecting decent compensation is being unduly optimistic.
May 28, 2017, 2:13 am
#96
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Brexile in ADB
Programs: BA, TK, HHonours, Le Club, Best Western Rewards
Posts: 7,067
even for internal comms that is incredibly poorly presented. It says something about his mindset that he jumps straight to the "if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem" position. Could be rewritten in 2 minutes, but shouldn't have been so poorly phrased in first instance.
May 28, 2017, 2:14 am
#97
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2014
Location: UK
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 12,269
One thing that I don't understand is the complete absence (AFAIK) of any BA reps doing media interviews. This was the number 1 news story on all the TV news channels last night, but I saw no BA rep interviewed to explain, apologise promise to make things better, etc etc. And the even more remarkable thing is that nobody from the media commented on the absence of such a rep.
May 28, 2017, 2:33 am
#98
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: London
Programs: BA Gold, LH Sen, MUCCI, Junior Jet Club.
Posts: 8,103
May 28, 2017, 2:34 am
#99
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,676
While I think Alex's post on Yammer could use some refinement in places - the core message is right.
"We're working on fixing it, we'll figure out what happened and what we can improve on later, either help or leave us to it"
I've spent many hours/days/weeks (collectively - not at once!) in crisis mode in IT. When a system is down and you are recovering - you fix first, wash up later. And you wash up when everyone's had a chance to rest so that everyone is fresh and can discuss it properly.
If you can find the root cause - you fix it. If you can't - you add logging/checks around the suspicious areas and come up with a faster recovery plan for next time.
You also need to keep in mind that the list of people Alex will have been talking to will have been extensive - not just talking with the IT teams - but also legal, customer service, big investors, IAG board members, contact centre management etc etc etc. It's clear there's frustration at the queries being raised on Yammer and I get his point - the time for the hard questions will come - but fix the problem first.
The people who are asking these questions probably believe they are helping to get to the bottom of the problem. Right now - that's not the task.
As I said - could it use some refinement? Perhaps tone a little of the frustration down? Sure! Underlying message? Spot on.
"We're working on fixing it, we'll figure out what happened and what we can improve on later, either help or leave us to it"
I've spent many hours/days/weeks (collectively - not at once!) in crisis mode in IT. When a system is down and you are recovering - you fix first, wash up later. And you wash up when everyone's had a chance to rest so that everyone is fresh and can discuss it properly.
If you can find the root cause - you fix it. If you can't - you add logging/checks around the suspicious areas and come up with a faster recovery plan for next time.
You also need to keep in mind that the list of people Alex will have been talking to will have been extensive - not just talking with the IT teams - but also legal, customer service, big investors, IAG board members, contact centre management etc etc etc. It's clear there's frustration at the queries being raised on Yammer and I get his point - the time for the hard questions will come - but fix the problem first.
The people who are asking these questions probably believe they are helping to get to the bottom of the problem. Right now - that's not the task.
As I said - could it use some refinement? Perhaps tone a little of the frustration down? Sure! Underlying message? Spot on.
May 28, 2017, 2:42 am
#100
Join Date: Mar 2013
Programs: BAEC Gold | Hilton Honors Platinum
Posts: 205
One thing that really strikes me with this incident, is the fact that it seems passengers were not let out of the terminal in a timely fashion. If I understand the commenters correctly, they needed to queue to be let out of T5, which, if true, is just mind boggling.
Was that the case or was it just immigration that was a hold-up?
Was that the case or was it just immigration that was a hold-up?
Genuinely have never seen such scenes before - people got very angry at one point next to A19, a woman broke through one of the emergency exits (past 3 security staff) shouting her head off and was then escorted away by armed police. Amazed nothing else kicked off to be honest!
May 28, 2017, 3:13 am
#101
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Singapore
Programs: HHonors Diamond; A3 *Nothing ; BA Exec. Club Gold
Posts: 1,690
The message from Alex Cruz is understandable but he has failed his staff in a way that is just unbelievably bad. He seemed more worried about bad news messaged rather than solving the problem.
The cause of the issue is not known. Whether it is a cyber attack, a power outage, a lightning strike it all does not matter. I happened in the IT infrastructure that needs to be able to manage the critical operation BA has. If it fails there needs to be a working redundancy and clearly it was not working. Whatever the cause was, this was squarely within BA's responsibility and not an act of god, even if the initial cause was a lightning strike.
I am keen to see how BA (Cruz) will spin this to avoid EC261 compensation. It is clear the only leaflets shared revolved around food and hotel stays. The current statement mentions cancellation and rebooking, again it avoids anything around compensation.
So it happened, as it does.. when it hits the fan communication is the only thing that can help turn it into a nightmare. And from what I have seen while sitting on my sofa in Singapore the communication was horrible. The CEO sent a video at 7pm, the BBC mentioned that flights where cancelled until 6pm and none if the front line staff was informed. It led, according to some posts, to lounge staff denying the BBC statement over the Tannoy. The management let the front line staff down massively and that is followed by the customers.
People were told to leave the lounges but there was no contingency plan to clear the departures area. There was no contingency to reunite passengers with their checked in belongings. There was no BA staff available for information. (And I feel for the front line staff because they would not have information to share).
In the end we will get passengers that were not rebooked, have missed their commitments, and looking at the history BA has with baggage there could be mountains of bags that never get reunited with their owners.
Then there are people that have not been rebooked yet, stay in a hotel and have no idea when they can travel. The only communication today is for people that are not rebooked, not to come to the airport.
A simple statement, we will do everything to make sure you are getting to your destination, we will rebook you on BA or any other service. If you do no longer wish to travel we will refund your fare. We will compensate you in line with the regulations that apply. And we will make sure your bags are returned or you are compensated for any lost bag.
BA surely needs to be in crisis mode to solve the issue but they can't forget their customers at the same time. They have a ton of management staff so can compartmentalize the actions that need to be taken. Cruz his only job now is to approve departments actions. That includes PR statements, communications, operations etc. No one expects him to do it himself.
Rant over,
Globalist
The cause of the issue is not known. Whether it is a cyber attack, a power outage, a lightning strike it all does not matter. I happened in the IT infrastructure that needs to be able to manage the critical operation BA has. If it fails there needs to be a working redundancy and clearly it was not working. Whatever the cause was, this was squarely within BA's responsibility and not an act of god, even if the initial cause was a lightning strike.
I am keen to see how BA (Cruz) will spin this to avoid EC261 compensation. It is clear the only leaflets shared revolved around food and hotel stays. The current statement mentions cancellation and rebooking, again it avoids anything around compensation.
So it happened, as it does.. when it hits the fan communication is the only thing that can help turn it into a nightmare. And from what I have seen while sitting on my sofa in Singapore the communication was horrible. The CEO sent a video at 7pm, the BBC mentioned that flights where cancelled until 6pm and none if the front line staff was informed. It led, according to some posts, to lounge staff denying the BBC statement over the Tannoy. The management let the front line staff down massively and that is followed by the customers.
People were told to leave the lounges but there was no contingency plan to clear the departures area. There was no contingency to reunite passengers with their checked in belongings. There was no BA staff available for information. (And I feel for the front line staff because they would not have information to share).
In the end we will get passengers that were not rebooked, have missed their commitments, and looking at the history BA has with baggage there could be mountains of bags that never get reunited with their owners.
Then there are people that have not been rebooked yet, stay in a hotel and have no idea when they can travel. The only communication today is for people that are not rebooked, not to come to the airport.
A simple statement, we will do everything to make sure you are getting to your destination, we will rebook you on BA or any other service. If you do no longer wish to travel we will refund your fare. We will compensate you in line with the regulations that apply. And we will make sure your bags are returned or you are compensated for any lost bag.
BA surely needs to be in crisis mode to solve the issue but they can't forget their customers at the same time. They have a ton of management staff so can compartmentalize the actions that need to be taken. Cruz his only job now is to approve departments actions. That includes PR statements, communications, operations etc. No one expects him to do it himself.
Rant over,
Globalist
May 28, 2017, 3:59 am
#102
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 14
Outsourced
BA refute claims this has anything to do with outsourcing well over 50% of the IT jobs late last year but look at how many times they have had major systems failures since that happened.
The contact centre review is now in its last few weeks before all contact centre staff will have the enviable choice of keeping there jobs with a company who doesn't care about them as employees or care about customers but who are purely focused on cost cutting oh and to keep working for BA they will have to accept cuts to their pay and conditions OR they get taken over by a third party provider who has a terrible reputation for not delivering.
So if things are bad now trying to get through to a demoralised call centre wait until end of June when the decision is made.
The contact centre review is now in its last few weeks before all contact centre staff will have the enviable choice of keeping there jobs with a company who doesn't care about them as employees or care about customers but who are purely focused on cost cutting oh and to keep working for BA they will have to accept cuts to their pay and conditions OR they get taken over by a third party provider who has a terrible reputation for not delivering.
So if things are bad now trying to get through to a demoralised call centre wait until end of June when the decision is made.
May 28, 2017, 4:15 am
#103
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Chicagoland, IL, USA
Programs: WN CP, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 14,193
Hoping the new system will be better. Still some teething pains.
May 28, 2017, 4:18 am
#104
Ambassador: Emirates Airlines
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 18,619
BA refute claims this has anything to do with outsourcing well over 50% of the IT jobs late last year but look at how many times they have had major systems failures since that happened.
The contact centre review is now in its last few weeks before all contact centre staff will have the enviable choice of keeping there jobs with a company who doesn't care about them as employees or care about customers but who are purely focused on cost cutting oh and to keep working for BA they will have to accept cuts to their pay and conditions OR they get taken over by a third party provider who has a terrible reputation for not delivering.
So if things are bad now trying to get through to a demoralised call centre wait until end of June when the decision is made.
The contact centre review is now in its last few weeks before all contact centre staff will have the enviable choice of keeping there jobs with a company who doesn't care about them as employees or care about customers but who are purely focused on cost cutting oh and to keep working for BA they will have to accept cuts to their pay and conditions OR they get taken over by a third party provider who has a terrible reputation for not delivering.
So if things are bad now trying to get through to a demoralised call centre wait until end of June when the decision is made.
</FARAGE MODE>