skba1

This kind of behaviour truly does annoy me... Good service is about not being seen and doing things invisibly while being at hand if there are any questions or requests.

I like BA F, but it is not worth the premium that is asked for making cash bookings. In fact lately LH group have had very competitive prices from Scandinavia and UK (and a few more places) to USA.

weero

Within their own ranks yes - it is clearly better than CW. But the transfer services at their mega hub and the catering?

I'd say they have a very solid and consistent coach product, except on the Nightmareliner abomination. Almost like LH.

bigbirdwithsilverwings

I think the notion that BA F is the best biz class is silly. My wife and I flew BA F LHR-SFO on an A380 yesterday. Seats 2 and 3A. Had about 4 fun hours-really!-in Concorde Room. Had a cabana and had time to shower. Had a glass of champagne on the terrace. I love the terrace because I am a plane geek and because I think it's a very cool space. Samsung has a tiny booth there, I guess for just this month so I also got to use some VR goggles and went to jurassic park. Loved the very short movie and would have bought the goggles but not compatible w/Apple products. My wife had a facial w/Elemis and I had my first manicure as I approach my 7th decade on earth. The whole experience was great. Gracious and professional service. Fantastically comfortable seats. We had to go to terminal C (?) so were required to go down an escalator (or elevator if you prefer) and get on a train and then go up an escalotor/elevator. Took about 15 minutes all in and walked directly onto the plane. Got a tour of the A380 cockpit (I've been a flight instructor for 36 years) before settling in w/a JWBlue. Great flight. The whole experience was super. I continue to be a big fan of BA F.

We took Emirates F to Rome via Dubai outbound. Was it better? Yup. However, going to Dubai to get to Rome was a bit nuts....next time, I'll be content w/BA F and save many many hours----

seanp7

Well, apples to oranges. You've compared a 10-hr longhaul flight, where 70% of your compliments were about the CCR, to a dog-leg flight on EK. Try SFO-FRA or FRA-SFO/LAX on LH F as a comparison, and then report back. It's streets ahead. BA's transfer experience in LHR, as mentioned multiple times above, is poor - and the service on board is hit and miss. Depending on the crew, J+ can be totally apt for BA (unfortunately).

stimpy

I'm glad you enjoyed yourself and that's what counts. But you know that any OWE flying any class, even economy, gets to use that same terrace and drink champagne over in GF, separated from you only by a short glass door. And the escalators and trains (and buses for inter-terminal transit) are not what First class passengers experience with AF and LH. I could go on and on, but this thread is full of these points.

I'll be back in BA F in a few weeks and I'm looking forward to parts of the trip. But not the long walks, bus ride to T3 (connecting to BCN), no CCR in T3, or any of the other non-First class parts of the trip. In my mind I'll be flying business class.

FrancisA

I think the OP's comments about BA F are very fair and balanced.

Of course, other airlines do other things better. What matters is that the balance of price and product works for you. Route network is also a clincher.

With BA F is often very competitively priced and redemptions are readily available. I wouldn't say that for LH or AF.

It is easy to describe BA F as J+, but how many of those that do that are flying F on BA or others using their own hard cash?

The OP enjoyed the BA F experience. To me that's what matters, not people who will come along posting replies to massage their egos as they pretend that they eat beluga caviar everyday washed down with Krug. The rest of us in the real world can get the OP's point of view.

srbrenna

I don't understand all this BA F bashing. I have done six sectors this year and they have been very good. I've recently stepped off a QR 787 and, while the J seat is good, it really doesn't have the same space. The soft products have also slipped a bit too.

At the same time they are both excellent though.

Padmeister

Very well said Francis.

The OP enjoyed it and that's what matters! But people have to come along here and instantly bash the product and then start banging on about how much better other airline F products are.

The comments that really grind my gears are the ones that say about catching the transit train with all the other pax like they feel better and superior to others. Do I feel better than the person standing next to me when I am travelling F and they are travelling Economy? No I do not!

orbitmic

Besides the slightly gratuitous comments on other posters which seem to be coming a bit out of the blue, I am not sure that I see the contrast that you do between the OP's whose post you seem to like and the people who said that BA F is less luxurious than many competitors or even call it J+!

For all practical purposes, the OP used avios to upgrade BA J into BA F and that is the main scope of his comparison. He said that the latter is nicer than the former which I did not see anyone disagreeing with, but his and his girlfriend's conclusion was that on the whole, they would not use avios to upgrade again.

"Worse", they both conclude that they actually preferred QR J to BA F! So I'm not entirely sure how you come to bashing those who say that LH F or AF F, or for that matter CX F or SQ F as "describing BA F as J+" but similarly approve the OP for considering that QR J is superior to BA F? To me, in that sense, the OP's verdict was far more damning than anyone else's.

I fully agree with you that: "the OP's comments about BA F are very fair and balanced". He rightly describes it as a step above BA J in terms of lounge facilities, onboard comfort, and service. He equally sees it as hardly worth the avios and inferior to QR J on the 787, which I personally disagree with. In turn, I do actually agree with other posters that BA F is not in the same league as AF, JL, or SQ F for instance, and I find their conclusion far less radical than the OP's.

You mention price and accessibility, again, I did not see anyone disputing that pricing should be relevant to people's decisions but i'd stir well clear from suggesting that BA F is cheap and cheerful.

Sure, BA has the odd super cheap promotion, but so do EK and EY complete with chauffeured door to door transfer so precisely for people paying their own tickets, that is presumably part of the equation. AF and LH more rarely have big F sales, but regular weekend F fares with AF start around �3000 which is not out of line with BA's equivalent. Similarly, not everyone only buys cheap leisure restricted F, and regular and flex prices are not any cheaper than their competitors. In fact in a previous such thread I had fun picking 12 random routes from 12 different European points (LHR, CDG, FRA, ZRH, FCO, PRG, etc) to 12 popular international ones (JFK, LAX, SIN, HKG, JNB, etc) using a variety of dates and stay lengths and comparing the cheapest available prices on BA, AF, LH, and LX. BA came out cheaper on almost exactly 25% of cases, ie neither better nor worse than average.

Miles? Sure, AF restrict P to its own elite members and on flex awards. ARN-MEX or FCO-LAX will come up at 200,000 miles on FB against 127,500 on BA (taxes and surcharges are half the BA ones) if you can get the BA nonstop availability which is a tall order, so it is significantly more expensive. However, that just says something about the FFPs rather than the F because you have the exact same difference in J and proportionally more in PE! Availability is better on AF too (because of those restrictions). LH is 85,000 for the same in F so much less than BA. And of course, at BA prices, you could get JL or CX.

So that leaves what? Easier and cheaper to upgrade from J to F on BA than competitors, and get occasional complementary outbound upgrade to F when you buy a paid return in J promotions, and frankly, when that is precisely what is left, you can hardly blame people for seeing BA F as J+.

orbitmic

Why would you make that rather surreal interpretation about their motivation? It seems to me that many people flying F expect:

- a more comfortable seat in a separate cabin;
- a more comfortable check in using separate check in counters or areas;
- a more comfortable airport security experience using separate fast track channels;
- a more comfortable airport wait using separate lounges;
- a more comfortable boarding experience using separate fast track lanes;
- often a more comfortable immigration experience using separate fast track immigration lanes;

Why on earth would all of the above be perfectly acceptable but expecting a more comfortable airport transit experience using separate transport suddenly be shockingly snobbish?

Don't take me wrong, for all of the above, people could appreciate the comfort or could indeed be insufferable snobs who just want to feel better than the rest of the population which they might secretely despise and hate, but it seems to me that your distinction making the airport transfer part different in motivation is totally arbitrary. If anything, I'd have some sympathy for people who may be shocked by fast track immigration because in a way it creates a form of inequality before public authority, and some could argue that this is morally wrong, but to say that smoother transfer from lounge to plane and vv is somehow terrible? I really don't get what is supposed to make it so different from the rest.

vibguy

I fully agree with your list. I would add that I also appreciate some more seat privacy (AF provides curtains) and that I do not like the high density of the seats in BA First on the B747.

A more comfortable transfer from lounge to aircraft really is a must. On my last flight arriving at T3 (remote stand), I needed two buses and a long walk to get from the plane to T5 (one hour in total, unacceptable for First).

Comfortable immigration is the most important thing for me. I am upset that being in BA F you have no guarantee at all to disembark first and you will normally not be assisted to get a speedy immigration. That's why I now pay for a Meet&Greet Service to get a personal and speedy immigration process at places where that is otherwise problematic. BA should provide these services for its First customers as some many other airlines do.

Padmeister

Deleted.

xenole

Most of the "more comfortable" benefits listed I get flying in a cheap �250 Y seat with my gold card that I could earn for less than �1k by doing a LAX-PTY run with BA positioning flights ex-DUB.

I've said before that I believe F should be a more first class experience.
I personally fly all cabins so know the differences and I have survived on a few occasions 13hr trips to HKG, SFO etc. in economy.
Still feel T5 is the wrong way around and if T5A had the heavies, then a 5 minute wander to gate A6 or similar wouldn't seem anywhere as bad as a trip over to T5C where there's practically nothing.

When I fly F, I don't want practically the same "sit down, meal, lights off for hours, lights on, breakfast, off the plane" sort of experience with a crew who may or may not be the slightest bit bothered that day (worse if you're on a once-in-a-lifetime trip that you've scrimped and saved for).

Sure I can leave the CCR up to an hour before my flight and use the walkways or transit like everyone else but it does detract from any sort of premium experience. Like most things BA, at the end of the day, regardless of how much you're paying, you're just another punter for a few hours and nothing more.

I probably manage to fly F once or twice a year so I'm looking for something special rather than the same old, mundane experience. I appreciate being able to sit in the F cabin and I suppose I do feel superior at that point but I'm still fully aware of what it's like in the back (unlike many here) and that does increase the aforementioned appreciation.

I'm off to BOS in F in just under 3 weeks and I'm looking forward to it (especially if they don't sub the 787-9 I'm on). Hopefully I'll get the pyjamas this time and whilst the menu isn't quite to my tastes, I'll hopefully enjoy the experience.

corporate-wage-slave

I fully agree with this, BA's First service has many more seats to many more destination than most competitors. The airline could constrain this to bring it up to Air France's very good service but then many people would miss out on the lovely experience that bigbirdwithsilverwings, and probably quite importantly, his/her wife also enjoyed. I don't think we should detract from that traveller's experience. I also don't believe BA's level of availability and AF's product can be combined in any viable way.

Quite irrelevant to the key points here, but irrespective of class of travel, it's probably best to walk to the gate rather than use the transit. Personally I'd probably prefer that to a car transfer too, though I have only had a few of them, it's quite lovely down there. Details on the passageways in the Dashboard.

mikeyfly

This is probably an issue for most people after 3/4 hours in the CCR