The 2016 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation 261/2004
Jan 18, 2016, 5:37 pm
#76
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 16
Big thank you
Big thanks to you guys. If not for this forum, I would have never received the 1200 Euros I just did for my claim. They honored it in 3 days of me submitting it! Mind Blown!
The missing Domestic flight is interesting. Under the Montréal Convention BA may also be liable for this, as well as the EC261 aspects. That Convention also has something similar to the "extraordinary cricumstances" clause, indeed that is where it came from originally, but if the cancellation is due to a shortage of aircraft or crew then I think you may be on to something. The flight today out from London is cancelled and since that is 3 hours off that makes me suspect BA's wriggle room will be very tight.
Moreover, as you may have noticed from the above, this relates to the services on the 11 January. If I've understood your post correctly, on the day of your booked travel, BA are actually going to run a flight from Austin to London. If you are being bumped on the 12th January, it presumably is due to the fact that they can't squeeze everyone from today's service to tomorrows.
Now a lot depends on what you would prefer. If you want to get to your destination on the advertised date, then you need to get BA to re-route you, and perhaps bump someone else off your flight. However if they reroute you via DFW or somewhere it may be a more tiring journey to say the least. If you are happy to go the next day but want both EC261 compensation and the domestic service refunded then you need to give BA some opportunity to fix the situation. If the EC261 is fine, and you're happy with that, then you don't have to do much other than claim after the flight.
So depending on the previous paragraph you will need to call BA. If they can't do much for you, ensure that they add into the notes of the PNR about the domestic flight and your preferences.
The EC261 seems a done deal here. I can't see anyway BA could argue out of it.
Moreover, as you may have noticed from the above, this relates to the services on the 11 January. If I've understood your post correctly, on the day of your booked travel, BA are actually going to run a flight from Austin to London. If you are being bumped on the 12th January, it presumably is due to the fact that they can't squeeze everyone from today's service to tomorrows.
Now a lot depends on what you would prefer. If you want to get to your destination on the advertised date, then you need to get BA to re-route you, and perhaps bump someone else off your flight. However if they reroute you via DFW or somewhere it may be a more tiring journey to say the least. If you are happy to go the next day but want both EC261 compensation and the domestic service refunded then you need to give BA some opportunity to fix the situation. If the EC261 is fine, and you're happy with that, then you don't have to do much other than claim after the flight.
So depending on the previous paragraph you will need to call BA. If they can't do much for you, ensure that they add into the notes of the PNR about the domestic flight and your preferences.
The EC261 seems a done deal here. I can't see anyway BA could argue out of it.
Jan 20, 2016, 11:28 am
#77
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2
"extraordinary circumstances"
I was just denied compensation due to "extraordinary circumstances".
These circumstances were a fault with the plane, and I quote "The aircraft was new and this failure could not be avoided by any possible maintenance action".
Instead, I'm offered a small voucher, with 2 weeks to accept this as final offer.
Any thoughts as to whether this really is "extraordinary circumstances".
These circumstances were a fault with the plane, and I quote "The aircraft was new and this failure could not be avoided by any possible maintenance action".
Instead, I'm offered a small voucher, with 2 weeks to accept this as final offer.
Any thoughts as to whether this really is "extraordinary circumstances".
Jan 20, 2016, 11:34 am
#78
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Welcome to Flyertalk nicnet and the BA forum. It's good to see you here and I very much hope that you will be able to make good use of the resource. Welcome on board.
I think it's unlikely that being "new" is sufficient. The courts are operating off a high bar in this area, the one identified "technical" fault that I know of that would be extraordinary would be if Boeing or Airbus issued some advisory that grounded lots of aircraft unexpectedly. Broadly speaking extraordinary needs to be exactly that. Now it's a bit difficult to be specific since there aren't enough details here (and it doesn't sound like a BA procedure either) but just being new isn't to my mind extraordinary.
I think it's unlikely that being "new" is sufficient. The courts are operating off a high bar in this area, the one identified "technical" fault that I know of that would be extraordinary would be if Boeing or Airbus issued some advisory that grounded lots of aircraft unexpectedly. Broadly speaking extraordinary needs to be exactly that. Now it's a bit difficult to be specific since there aren't enough details here (and it doesn't sound like a BA procedure either) but just being new isn't to my mind extraordinary.
Jan 20, 2016, 11:35 am
#79
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,492
I was just denied compensation due to "extraordinary circumstances".
These circumstances were a fault with the plane, and I quote "The aircraft was new and this failure could not be avoided by any possible maintenance action".
Instead, I'm offered a small voucher, with 2 weeks to accept this as final offer.
Any thoughts as to whether this really is "extraordinary circumstances".
These circumstances were a fault with the plane, and I quote "The aircraft was new and this failure could not be avoided by any possible maintenance action".
Instead, I'm offered a small voucher, with 2 weeks to accept this as final offer.
Any thoughts as to whether this really is "extraordinary circumstances".
Looking at other forums I believe this was not a BA flight but a Finnair A350 and poster has posted on the wrong board
Last edited by caz312; Jan 20, 2016 at 11:39 am Reason: additional
Jan 20, 2016, 11:45 am
#80
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2
Actually you're right -this was not a BA flight.
Sorry - I was looking for advice on what constitutes "extraordinary circumstances" in general, rather than specifically for BA.
Hopefully I don't tread on too many toes posting here? By all means delete my post if it does ;-)
Sorry - I was looking for advice on what constitutes "extraordinary circumstances" in general, rather than specifically for BA.
Hopefully I don't tread on too many toes posting here? By all means delete my post if it does ;-)
Jan 20, 2016, 11:51 am
#81
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Well it's not the end of the world, but strictly speaking if it was Finnair then their forum is a better place to get specific advice. Otherwise there is a danger that very general advice loses its relevance in application. However Finnair is on the list of "not exactly EC261 friendly airlines", also known as "see you in court". Finland is renowned for not having a small claims procedure and if one were to speculate wildly, I suspect this may influence Finnair's approach. There is a consumer ombudsman process there, however.
Jan 20, 2016, 2:40 pm
#82
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Sorry for the cross-post, but realize the traffic and depth of knowledge is higher here than the VS forum, and figure the law is the law regardless of UK-based airline.
Booked JFK-LHR on morning VS flight. Booked in PE but MFU to J. Flight canceled with 2h notice. After much wrangling got rebooked onto BA178. Next VS J seat minimum 9 hours 50 minutes later. Only WTP available on BA. Made sure my BAEC number not added as want to retain right to original routing credit on VS (so can requalify as Gold with them).
Case for EU261 involuntary downgrade against VS? I accepted the WTP seat on BA (as no J available on BA178), but would have had to wait close to 10 hours for next available J seat on VS. This actually wasn't even offered to me as I proactively said I wanted rebooking on BA in order to get to London that evening.
Thanks in advance.
Booked JFK-LHR on morning VS flight. Booked in PE but MFU to J. Flight canceled with 2h notice. After much wrangling got rebooked onto BA178. Next VS J seat minimum 9 hours 50 minutes later. Only WTP available on BA. Made sure my BAEC number not added as want to retain right to original routing credit on VS (so can requalify as Gold with them).
Case for EU261 involuntary downgrade against VS? I accepted the WTP seat on BA (as no J available on BA178), but would have had to wait close to 10 hours for next available J seat on VS. This actually wasn't even offered to me as I proactively said I wanted rebooking on BA in order to get to London that evening.
Thanks in advance.
Jan 20, 2016, 2:53 pm
#83
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Sorry for the cross-post, but realize the traffic and depth of knowledge is higher here than the VS forum, and figure the law is the law regardless of UK-based airline.
Booked JFK-LHR on morning VS flight. Booked in PE but MFU to J. Flight canceled with 2h notice. After much wrangling got rebooked onto BA178. Next VS J seat minimum 9 hours 50 minutes later. Only WTP available on BA. Made sure my BAEC number not added as want to retain right to original routing credit on VS (so can requalify as Gold with them).
Case for EU261 involuntary downgrade against VS? I accepted the WTP seat on BA (as no J available on BA178), but would have had to wait close to 10 hours for next available J seat on VS. This actually wasn't even offered to me as I proactively said I wanted rebooking on BA in order to get to London that evening.
Thanks in advance.
Booked JFK-LHR on morning VS flight. Booked in PE but MFU to J. Flight canceled with 2h notice. After much wrangling got rebooked onto BA178. Next VS J seat minimum 9 hours 50 minutes later. Only WTP available on BA. Made sure my BAEC number not added as want to retain right to original routing credit on VS (so can requalify as Gold with them).
Case for EU261 involuntary downgrade against VS? I accepted the WTP seat on BA (as no J available on BA178), but would have had to wait close to 10 hours for next available J seat on VS. This actually wasn't even offered to me as I proactively said I wanted rebooking on BA in order to get to London that evening.
Thanks in advance.
Jan 20, 2016, 3:19 pm
#84
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And there is no need to keep your BAEC number off the new reservation, it won't stop an out of Alliance Original Routing Credit, double dipping is OK and not unusual. You may be able to claim this after the event online, particularly if you have the right ticket number and locator.
Jan 20, 2016, 3:38 pm
#85
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Agreed. You can always try but I'd not have a lot of confidence of success. Had you been given no choice at all then that's another matter. Did you get to LHR within 3 or 4 hours of your original time? And was the next Virgin offer going to get you there within 3/4 hours?
And there is no need to keep your BAEC number off the new reservation, it won't stop an out of Alliance Original Routing Credit, double dipping is OK and not unusual. You may be able to claim this after the event online, particularly if you have the right ticket number and locator.
And there is no need to keep your BAEC number off the new reservation, it won't stop an out of Alliance Original Routing Credit, double dipping is OK and not unusual. You may be able to claim this after the event online, particularly if you have the right ticket number and locator.
What do you mean about the right ticket number and locator?
Thanks for your help.
Jan 20, 2016, 3:48 pm
#86
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If you had taken the later flight you would have got 600€ almost certainly. If you actually got to LHR no more than 3 hours late then you can't claim that. I doubt that you'll get far on downgrade compensation if that alternative was offered, but as stifle said, you could try arguing it. Personally I wouldn't bother. Arguably EC261 did it's job here - it mitigated the problems for you.
Jan 21, 2016, 6:17 am
#87
Join Date: Nov 2015
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My case against BA with flight-delayed.co.uk just hit the 6-week limit for BA to answer the claim and they failed to do so.
They're probably now going to use the national enforcement body. Any knowledge of how long does that usually take in the UK?
They're probably now going to use the national enforcement body. Any knowledge of how long does that usually take in the UK?
Jan 21, 2016, 6:49 am
#88
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That's the CAA in the UK. Personally I think that's a total waste of time, however it is free of charge for your claim company, but you may be one of the few lucky ones to get somewhere. It takes months typically.
Jan 21, 2016, 12:36 pm
#89
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So, Iberia are defending my claim for EC261 compensation after all (using Kennedys Law) - flight in question was a BA codeshare from T5, and with common IAG ownership I'm sure that there's relevance to BA! Gave some details in the 2015 thread, but basically missing passenger, need to offload bag, delay and missed connection (same ticket) in Madrid leading to overnight delay.
I'll probably post my claim details / argument here given the immense knowledge and possible usefulness to others. Iberia still standing by defence of this being an "extraordinary circumstance" and citing the "security risks", I'm going to stick with the Huzar ruling line that this is inherent in the operation of an airline and therefore not extraordinary. They cite the changes to the CAA non-binding list of examples post Huzar, but given that list was changed as a consequence it illustrates that it is subject to court interpretations etc.
Anyway, on a more practical note for anybody else pursuing Iberia, in their defence they provide the below as the address / legal entity for the action:
- Iberia Lineas Aereas de Espana S.A. Operadora
- Waterside Orient 2A, Harmondsworth, West Drayton UB7 0GB
P.S. if anybody knows of any good public stats on frequency of pax offloads that would be appreciated (I've got a second hand reference to SAS in Copenhagen from 2008 that says 4% of delays caused by this issue), similarly any blurbs about ready to fly / conformance and how it's supposed to improve efficiency etc. (I'm going to be spending a few hours on this at the weekend)
I'll probably post my claim details / argument here given the immense knowledge and possible usefulness to others. Iberia still standing by defence of this being an "extraordinary circumstance" and citing the "security risks", I'm going to stick with the Huzar ruling line that this is inherent in the operation of an airline and therefore not extraordinary. They cite the changes to the CAA non-binding list of examples post Huzar, but given that list was changed as a consequence it illustrates that it is subject to court interpretations etc.
Anyway, on a more practical note for anybody else pursuing Iberia, in their defence they provide the below as the address / legal entity for the action:
- Iberia Lineas Aereas de Espana S.A. Operadora
- Waterside Orient 2A, Harmondsworth, West Drayton UB7 0GB
P.S. if anybody knows of any good public stats on frequency of pax offloads that would be appreciated (I've got a second hand reference to SAS in Copenhagen from 2008 that says 4% of delays caused by this issue), similarly any blurbs about ready to fly / conformance and how it's supposed to improve efficiency etc. (I'm going to be spending a few hours on this at the weekend)
Jan 21, 2016, 1:17 pm
#90
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this is inherent in the operation of an airline and therefore not extraordinary. They cite the changes to the CAA non-binding list of examples post Huzar, but given that list was changed as a consequence it illustrates that it is subject to court interpretations etc.