NickB

I understand the underlying logic of what you are saying but I also see the underlying logic of choosing a different approach, as reflected, imo, in the Reg.

caz312

there is a couple referenced here https://www.dlapiper.com/~/media/Fil...soutsideEU.pdf

mpkz

I know I said this to you already in the QR forum, but I agree 100% with you. The ruling in Folkerts was that the entire itinerary is what matters, not the individual flights...

henkybaby

Yeah, but Folkerts in not applicable for two reasons: EU carrier and the transit airport was in the EU. Based on what caz312 provided it seems that there is clear need for a higher court ruling on this, but I am afraid that lower courts will issue 'Google Rulings' as my lawyer friend calls them.

mpkz

Not to be a lawyer but to encourage you to pursue it further and hopefully establish a precedent...

The Air France "defense" in Folkerts was that the flight in the EU wasn't delayed long enough for compensation to apply (in your case it's that the EU flight wasn't delayed at all). The judge said that was silly because even though the EU flight wasn't delayed by more than 3 hours, the passenger arrived at their final destination 11 hours after their scheduled arrival time and the airline couldn't just try to avoid their responsibility by saying that the EU flight didn't qualify.

Of course it's not a perfect analogue because the EU delay still caused the overall delay (not in your case) and the whole EU carrier business (don't think that should be that big a deal), but still.

NickB

It is not so much that the transit airport was in the EU. Had the delay occurred on CDG-GRU in Folkerts (so tha the transit airport would have been GRU), the outcome would have been identical. Nor is the nationality of the carrier relevant in the case of a flight from the EU. The issue was that the flight that caused the delay to the overall itinerary was a flight departing from an EU airport. It is that flight which has to be within the scope of the Reg.

To be honest, I think that you stand much better chances with a lower court on this one: you can benefit from the lottery effect of small claims jurisdiction plus the sympathy factor. Personally, I would not bet money on winning this one before the CJEU.

lorcancoyle

Putting aside the compensation question is Saltire74 entitled to the other EC261 protections - I.e. choice of rerouting or refund?

So maybe ask for AMS-LHR-HKG-SUB reroute and leave a few hours later? Still a chunky ~10 hour layover, and ~3 hours extra travel time with MCT etc. so can understand why it may not be palatable

henkybaby

His only right is a full refund.

NickB

Reg 261/2004 would not apply, period. it then becomes a question of what the contract provides (subject to any legislation against unfair terms or other consumer protection laws that might apply to the contract) or airline policy.

Saltire74

Thanks Folks for the insight.

Lorcancoyle, funnily enough, when I was looking at booking the flights in November last year, I was verging on booking on BA ex AMS as it was only £200 more. The only thing that put me off was the 1hr 15min connection in HKG which I know is do-able if flights are on time etc, but for me would make me feel a little uneasy as there is only 1 direct flight to SUB per day and I really didn't fancy a 24hr delay or a re-route around the houses. As it was, I had planned on meeting friends and doing some shopping to fill the original transit time but to me, the new connection time is just kicking the a&$e out of it now. I will do it because it's too late in the day for me to get a full refund and think about booking new flights. Already got my placement flights and hotel booked and cannot be bothered with all of the hassle. Will wait and see what CX offers

Just have to break it to the wife now .

Safe & Happy Travels

S

Safe & Happy Travels

DrGee

Now that we're into EU referendum mode I was just wondering how a UK exit from the EU would affect travellers travelling from the UK to non European destinations.

I don't suppose 261/2004 will play a large part in the referendum debate but some might be influenced by it.

NickB

Since it is improbable that the UK would not want to participate in the European Common Aviation Area, the answer is that it would probably have no impact: Reg 261/2004 would in all likelihood either continue apply as such in the UK or be mirrored in UK law.

JasGIll

Afternoon All

Just a quick one to pick your brains.

BA flight out of Houston was delayed 196 minutes, therefore entitled to claim under EC261. However, we were offered an alternative BA flight for the next day which we accepted. Therefore, we arrived home 24 hours after our scheduled arrival time. Can I expect 100% compensation at 600 euros and reimbursement of hotel costs etc.or 300 euros as the original delay was less than four hours

regards
Jas Gill

paul4040

What was the reason for the delay? You may be due 0 EUR if it's deemed to be an "exceptional circumstance" outside the airline's control.

Often1

First, what was the reason for the delay?

Second, you are due compensation for the length of the delay. If you chose a later flight for your convenience that does not increase your compensation from EUR 300 to 600. In fact, as a matter of EC 261/2004, you are not even due a duty of care for a hotel or food for the time between your delayed flight and the flight of your choosing.