RedcardPingle

Its certainly lacks any kind of wow-factor. At least 1st class will still have increased pitch and a table.

layz

My best memories of the east coast mainline certainly weren't during BR (but that was one of their better lines), it was with their initial private operator GNER.

Unfortunately, the current franchising system means we'd never have another GNER, all the government is looking for is the highest bidder and no consideration on facilities that make life more pleasant for the traveller.

GNER then overbid for their 2005 franchise and had to cut costs and raise fares and still couldn't meet their commitments.

Then National Express bid even more in 2007 and had to cut more costs and raise fares and we know what happened there.

East Coast was operated by the government and was returning a profit. So the government then repeat the same mistake of giving the franchise to the highest bidder. This time they bid ever more than National Express.

So a private operator can do a good job if they're not squeezed for every penny by the government. If the franchise had been based on past performance and a reasonable fee had been arranged for GNER to pay the government then it would work better in passengers interests.

Unlike the airline industry, where it's possible to start another airline and compete given enough capital and slots at the appropriate airport the chance to launch competitive routes on the railways is very small and as those who have tried to get an open access permit can tell you is a time consuming process.

Now Virgin/Stagecoach have a monopoly of intercity services heading north out of London.

layz

Return of meals? There's always been meals, just no longer restaurant quality.

You can buy sandwiches and certain hot food at the buffet and first class gets a complimentary meal appropriate to the time of day.

National Express promised hot food at seat in standard class. What it boiled down to was sticking some pre-heated paninis on the trolley. The experiment was a failure as expected because the food usually got cold before anyone bought it so it just got thrown out.

At best this will be a more modern version of what I thought National Express would have done. I thought they'd have used their WiFi enabled EPOS systems so the person on the trolley could take hot food orders that were fulfilled in the kitchen and delivered later. So Virgin may make it possible to order the existing menu using an app. However, I believe it when I see it.

It's possible to do four hours EDB-KGX now, but only one train a day and that's only possible by not stopping anywhere else except Newcastle. Unfortunately the network can't cope with too many fast trains like that. It's rare to not have a train stop at York.

callum9999

I made no claim about funding, merely on the actual service provided (and judging from hundreds of comments I've seen from regular commuters in the BR days, the service was poor in numerous scenarios that had absolutely nothing to do with lack of funding but just general mismanagement and apathy).

I wasn't talking about shifting capacity around by running shorter but more frequent trains. The increase in frequency has been of the "normal" train services, and it's working incredibly well.

BlueThroughCrimp

I would have though funding and service would be related...

BerksFlyer

^ +1 on pretty much all of that

Swanhunter

Will BA launch an open access operator - perhaps called Little East Coast - citing consumer choice on rail routes served by evil uncustomer friendly monopolistic Virgin?

Sixth Freedom

As I said, I don't think that any more revenue can be pressed out of the ECML. I expect it to pass back into DOR's hands in due course.

Epic fail by the government and civil service.

Calchas

Alas you're probably right. I don't really consider the current food served on the train in First to be a "meal" with the exception of the north bound dinner services.

layz

Northbound dinner services and the hot breakfast services are the highlights of the East Coast route, both ideal meals for journeys to Yorkshire and the North East. Although I liked using the restaurant on trains to Leeds, York and Newcastle the current alternative is fine when on the designated meal trains. I particularly miss the three course meal aspect of the restaurant on the 4+ hour trips to Edinburgh.

According to one person I was talking to in the old Newcastle based East Coast customer service centre they said that the first class complimentary catering offering had significant influence from the BA Club Europe product on the longer short haul flights. They even have afternoon tea on some trains, although that service has been reduced to a small number of trains due to feedback.

I hope you're right and they don't just allow them to renegotiate their franchise, a second chance neither GNER or NXEC were given. Richard Branson seems to be able to cry and get his way more than most.

I just can't see any way that the figures add up.

I hope FirstGroup is checking this franchising process for irregularities.

paulwuk

Leaky feeder? You can get phone service in the chunnel.

So why did they re advertise it?

The most I pay for a MAN-LHR is £161 in the morning (peak time single), and £35 for a flexible return half leaving after 7PM. This is rarely on the day though, I usually book about 8PM the night before (and I may well be doing it tomorrow in a couple of hours)

But If I'm going to London it has to be the first flight down, and it has to be the last flight back. Not worthwhile otherwise.

Current prices are:
Train: £180 rtn
Plane VS: £230 (far more than normal, Q down, R back, must be due to being Friday)
Plane BA: £403 (I down, R back)
Plane BA Avios: £35 + 9000 avios. Seriously, availability (ok I'm gold), but that gives a "value" of 3.2p per avios (11500 avios for £368). Of course I'd never book BA so in reality it is worth at most £195 for 9000 avios, or 2.1p per avios)

I'd love to see the fare rules for MAN-LHR, I assume there's tons of availability, but caught out by the booking window. I really should resume my expertflyer subscription, I wonder if I can claim it back against tax...

Calchas

Ask and you shall receive. Which fare class?

(You can also find out for yourself on ITA Matrix!)

henners

Hear hear - GNER absolutely rocked. Many happy memories of Friday evenings spent in the restaurant car back from NCL.

Although they did overbid slightly for the refranchise in 2005, the thing that absolutely floored them was the financial status of their owner, Sea Containers.

We had recently been threatened with quality being a much higher factor in franchise scoring. This award shows that's tosh...

TyneTraveller

The East Coast route used to be one of BR's best from what I remember as a late teenager at the time. Ticket fares were more affordable proportionately, and you didn't get confused with the over complex ticketing systems that are in existence now. Don't disagree with what you say at all though, as GNER made some significant improvements with investment from the mid 90's onward. However, National Express in my opinion operated a terrible service, compounded by walking out of contract in 2009. Hopefully Virgin/Stagecoach will do a better job.

layz

What you say is true. It's all well and good having these nice booking engines that pull out all these cheap fares, but wasn't it so much nicer when you didn't have to plan ahead, you knew the turn up and go fare was reasonable enough?

Even 10 years ago I thought turn up and go rail was affordable (although it was getting to the stage many disagreed). I could get a NCL-KGX GNER Executive ticket for £270 return which was first class open return + 3 course meal (or breakfast) each way in the restaurant + 7 days parking + Z12 tube travel. The regular first open return was £260 without the meals and parking.

Now a standard class anytime is £301, and a first class anytime return is £418, meals are now included for all in first class but are nothing like the 3 course restaurant meals.

So now instead of paying £270 and enjoying the flexibility I buy the cheapest first class advance tickets I can lay my hands on. I'd rather have the flexibility but I can't justify the cost when I can often get first class returns for less than £200.