Dave Noble

If punctuality is improved, then that will be a good thing - which was the context of the sentence I wrote

stifle

The thing that recently made me really question the conformance logic is this: why is it OK to have a shorter deadline for connecting passengers if the goal is to reduce delays? If this were the only goal, the deadline would presumably be the same for everyone. Obviously the shorter deadline makes it less likely people will misconnect triggering rebooking and potentially compensation arrangements, but that is a benefit to the airlines only.

On a separate point, who's going to build the new fleet of transfer desks before transit security at T1/3/4?

shorthauldad

Some FTers appear to live in a very monochromatic world!

BA could cut their schedules by 10% across the board and I am certain that that would result in an increase in punctuality for the remaining 90%.

Your starter for ten: does that make it a good idea?

NickB

Your post is the perfect example on how to spin data to make it look like supporting the conclusion that one had reached for other reasons in any event in the first place. There were a gazillion things that were wrong with BA at T4 and there were a number of things that were improved at T5. Attributing all T5 punctuality improvements exclusively to conformance is a major sleight of hand.

Secondly, conformance is not the only way to improve punctuality. It is just a cheap, passenger-unfriendly way to do it.

Thirdly, BA had a serious punctuality problem. Most other airlines did not and do not.

Fourthly, what shorthauldad said in post #48.

Dave Noble

It isn't customer unfriendly ; as long as it is made clear what the minimum time is for getting to security and if it is handled it is customer friendly - especially if a customer that isn't held up by someone who decides that getting to airport in a reasonable time is something for other people

NickB

To the extent that it will result in passengers being off-loaded which would not otherwise have been unloaded, it IS customer-unfriendly.

We are going round in circles like in previous threads on the topic. You seem to be unable to conceive that there are alternative ways to address the issue. Anyway, let us not go round that bush again as we have done it so many times.

Dave Noble

I think that actually having the cut off times enforced consistently is customer friendly

That some may not like it, does not mean that everyone dislikes the concept

orbitmic

My question is about whether the system is based on scheduled departure times or updated expected departure times (including expected delays). While I grind my teeth at the one size fit all in principle, I can in some way see the logic behind it. However, if 'the computer' rejects you because you try to clear security 33 minutes before departure time instead of 35 AND it happens that your flight has an expected delay of 15 minutes, that would be plain stupid.

kered

(My bolding)

You know, it's posts like this that make realise just how thankful I am that we've booked our next batch of TATL trips on EI / B6 & not via LHR with BA, VS or whoever.

I like travelling & for me, the journey is just as much part of the enjoyment as the destination itself. For many, many years, stretching back to the early 90's I used always look forward to the Heathrow portions of the journey. I enjoyed my time transiting through the airport. I knew the place like that back of my hand, had a couple of shortcuts I used to take, knew a couple of quiet places I could sneak off to for some down time, knew all the areas (particularly in T3) where I could plane spot. I just used to love the buzz of the place. I looked forward to Heathrow !!

But in recent years, It has become just such a saga. A total quagmire of frustration, anxiety & stress. Shuffling endlessly through line after line of "Passenger Processing", Do this, don't do that, you must go here, you can't go there. Surly, unpleasant & more and more often, downright rude, staff. Be it ticket checking, transfer desk, passport checks, or those bloody photo checks

Then there's security

I am so, so, sick of watching them stroll around their area, doing nothing more than the bare minimum of their job description, as set out in the rules & regulations of some health, safety & welfare at work document. As the numbers of tired, jet-lagged, hot, sweaty, frustrated, hungry, passengers, who just want to get to where their going, builds up at the two or three open stations, out of an available six or sometime even ten stations.

And woe betide any one of those overly frustrated passengers at the end of their tether who might dare speak out & simply question the slowness of the line, or express their frustration at the process. They will be reminded in no uncertain terms that each & every member of staff at the checkpoint are hiding behind those signs declaring that "we will not tolerate verbal abuse of our staff & the police will be called" So in other words, just stand there like the Muppet we think you, the paying passenger, are & we'll get to you when we're good & ready & not a second before.

These days I much rather take on the U.S. TSA operated checkpoints than I do those at "Jobsworth Heathrow".

Having sat here, written this & read through this thread, I am so thankful, that I won't have to deal with Heathrow, for the foreseeable future.


(and breathe)

Arsey00

Plus one to the whole of Kered's post above.

I used to love Heathrow. I, too, knew my way around, knew shortcuts. While reading that post, I realised that now, however much I despise the new LHR, I'm glad in a backwards way that its my home airport now. At least I'm unlikely to connect.

layz

Personally I thought Heathrow was a nightmare airport before T5 opened and was one of the reasons I stuck with KLM for a while after moving to London (often preferring to fly LCY-AMS-wherever if there was no direct flight from LCY than making the trip across London to use LHR - being used to flying from the regions I was used to an AMS connection). Then T5 opened and Heathrow became bearable (T1 and T4 were less crowded when BA moved out), BD matched my Flying Blue status so I used them until they stopped flying where I needed to go and then I moved to BA (although I kept with BD on the MAN-LHR route).

I can't find anything pleasurable about the old Heathrow.

corporate-wage-slave

I see your point, but there are some nuances on it. For starters T5B to T5B or C Flight connections are very different from the main Flight Connection centre for a whole host of reasons. Secondly UK Flight Connections has no security at all, so again one can appreciate it is a different timing there.

However you are no doubt pointing to bog standard T1A Flight Connections - which must be the majority - where indeed there is a different time for connecting passengers to the 35 minutes given to incoming passengers just up the stairs (and who are a bit nearer to security). I guess this is partly explained by the orange Express connection tags, who are supposed to jump queues, a process that would be unconscionable to give to passengers who start their journeys at T5.

Incidentally I had a T1 journey yesterday (with Lufthansa) and though there was a full scan and validation of the boarding pass, the member of staff manning the scanner said he didn't know what my cut off time was, and said they were still waiting for more training on how it would work in practice.

shorthauldad

The pro-conformance people will tell you that delays are taken into account.

Given the number of times I have been sitting in the lounge and then a significant delay suddenly appears for my flight, I doubt this works as well as is claimed. If BA can't update the lounge monitors and/or the BA app, does the conformance checking system really get timely updates on delays?

Arsey00

Just before T5, yes, it was absolutely a nightmare. And something needed to be done. I'm going back to the early- to mid-90s though. Checking in with anyone but Virgin was horrid from about '97 on.

But since T5, I find it more and more like a Las Vegas casino, trying to suck my time and money out of me by means of fancy lighting and the promise of a free drink (where's my lobster dinner?!). The amount of time wasted with this ridiculous business of not announcing gates, only having staff in one spot outside the lounges, anything to keep me and my purse locked in A. I can't stand it.

I'm with the non-conformists. Let me try and make my flight. It's perfectly possible to alert another gate that my flight has landed. Or not. If it has and I can run fast enough, or if that GA is prepared to wait for me, I'll get on the plane. If not, I only end up back at the same rebooking desk the conformists would have me sent to anyway.

Silver Fox

T5 is a scrum. I dread having to go through there.