LeisureFirst

That is very true, particularly on a short overnight flight such as from the East Coast of the US. On those flights I'm asleep from literally minutes after take-off until the crew wake me up for landing and service isn't much of an issue. For a long overnighter, such as to/from South Africa or LAX, I'd say F is easily worth the extra miles.

Ian7000

Raffles, I meant considering that there is a price difference between Club World and First if one was to purchase the tickets with cash, how would the value of the two relate when one is using BA miles, as you would than be only using 50% more miles for First.

I am referring to flights to the east coast of Canada and the US, so 7-8 hours.

In regards to the MFU from WTP to CW, is it not cheaper to buy miles, at the moment BA are giving a bonus when you buy miles.

LeisureFirst

A First ticket bought with cash is normally more than 1.5 times the cost of a CW ticket so in that sense an F redemption is better value.

Direct comparisons are a bit tricky because of the different terms and conditions. Redemptions can be changed without penalty and cancelled for only a small fee, but because of poor availability are in practice nothing like as flexible as a full J/F fare so its not quite clear what you should compare them with. Also, if you don't need the flexibility, then it's silly to compare their prices with those of a flexible ticket which you would never buy anyway.

Ian7000

In the past I have booked First during a day flight and than Club World to return during a night flight. This seemed to work quite well. I can understand the logic that First might not be worth it for a night flight if you are going to sleep for the majority of the flight.

It is also interesting to note that the taxes, fees and surcharges are the same for both First and Club World from Heathrow.

Jimmie76

Ooh that's so true.

nmenaker

There are so MANY variables here, it really isn't possible to formulate a complete or exact answer. As many people have noted, if one is really "miles rich' with tons of them, then jumping up to an F award doesn't have too much of an opportunity cost to CW. Compared to value of the award compared to "what it would cost in cash" which come on, does ANYONE really pay? Then the F award can be considered MORE valuable in that an F TICKET could be easily 1.5x-3X MORE MONEY than a CW trip, especially the long hauls

If one is traveling on a long overnight flight, or just a LONG 11+hour flight then the value of F could be considered in many ways.

-Does it allow you to be truly refreshed both on the ground and in the air (concorde room access, VERY quite F lounges, cabana suites/showers, etc.)
-Does it allow one to really arrive ready for a meeting, kick of a great vacation, etc.?
-Does one truly appreciate the quiet and privacy that the F cabin can offer over the CW cabin? One of the things I have noticed in F is that it can often be empty, but even when FULL it is a very calm and quiet experience. That to some can have a great deal of value.

On a double leg international flight, the F of both the AIR and GROUND F service and experience can really make the journey easier and down right ENJOYABLE. I have the feeling that doing it all in CW would be less of an experience and also less quiet and easy going. In F, things just happen and are smoother. There is no concern with overhead space. There are 20-40 people surrounding you. There is no question if you will get your preferred meal, you get what you want, when you want it, how you want it, how much you want of it, etc.

Trying to calculate all of this would be very difficult indeed. It can be both objective and subjective in its impact on the end traveler.

JumboD

At least on AA this is definitely true. Got F awards to Europe about six weeks out when J awards were nowhere to be found. On AA F awards to Europe are also a great bargain compared to J awards: AA's J is nowhere near as good as CW and F is 125k while J is 100k (prices increased a couple years ago on J but not F).

Droch

You get a bigger bang for your buck using First over Club World. I just ran the prices for my upcoming trip for first and club and its amazing how much it would cost for me to book first. I could actually think about booking club and paying for it. On top of it all I am using a 2-4-1 so double the cost.

For PHL-LHR-TXL in May the below is using 150k and 100k for one passenger
All in USD

First lowest 11270 .075 cents per mile
CW lowest 3452 .034 cents per mile

First Flex 16649 .11 cents per mile
CW Flex 7722 .077 cents per mile

So for me when I was booking I considered 2 things.
1. I wanted my wife to fly in F because she normally only gets to fly in CW and she brings most of the miles to the table.
2. If I was to book this outright it would cost the 2 of us $22540 for the flight and so take advantage of something I would never pay for.

fincastle84

To conserve your miles the alternative is to do as I've just done & book J & then pay for seat allocation in the bubble. BA are now allocating 6 seats for pre payment on this route.

uk1

In reality for many people - the ONLY way they might ever experience F is through redemptions because whilst they just may be prepared to pay C for a flight, F just wouldn't happen. Two tickets to Oz for example in F will currently cost between �13.3k to �18.4k. This can be attained using 300k miles, and amex 241 and �1.3k in charges.

So if it's a trip where a key consideration is maximising uniqueness of experience, or given the other half a special experience then clearly F becomes exceptional value for money because it offers an experience you will not get any other way.

Seshman

Another thought to ponder: PMPC? We need to look at how much this would cost for a return in J (and what balance of miles/cash you are willing to spend) versus cost of WTP and 25000 miles. Now I know that you will get the miles for the WTP, but when it comes to cold hard cash, surely the PMPC route would be cheaper? (but yes, you spend more miles...) So if you are an infrequent flyer but earn miles then PMPC maybe? as oppose to a frequent flyer who might go for the MFU? I know the question pertains to F vs J but I thought I would throw another dimension into it.

zippyboarder

For me I think CW is the best use of miles value Vs Service but saying that I would always book F as I can never use enough miles.

Really depends on how many miles you have and how many trips you need to use miles for

LeisureFirst

I don't know many people who routinely pay the full F fare from their own pockets (I can think of a couple) but there are special offers and suchlike out there which make it all a lot more reasonable. Business travellers often seems to experience F on the "free one-way upgrade to F" kind of ticket. Leisure travellers tend to do so through special promotions. In recent sales BA have offered upgrades to F on North American routes for �500 per sector, which is very good value going out to the West Coast, say.

bigmerv

Having done numerous CW and F flights in the past few months, some paid, some redemption and some with the recent buy full fare CW fly F o/w promo, there is clearly a difference between the two products in terms of amenities, food, priority etc, but the one thing I have really noticed, and the only thing that to my mind justifies taking F over CW (whether paying miles or money, and assuming limited resources/miles), is the calm and quiet ambiance in the cabin. CW is great, but does feel a bit like a flying dormitory, whereas F is just way more serene and you really feel like you have your own personal space. Of course, the one partial exception to this is the UD on the 747, which is essentially F lite from an ambiance perspective.

Genius1

I would say First on flights over 9 hours is justified. Under that, and it's probably not worth it.

Having said that, IMO, the service, food, privacy and seat comfort are all greater in F than J.