BA0257 cancelled after 5hrs delay. Not a moan.
Dec 2, 2010, 12:19 am
#1
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BA0257 cancelled after 5hrs delay. Not a moan.
Rather just wondering why they would cancel a flight when the others to the same destination took off. ? BA 257 last night was meant to depart at 3.25pm and they cancelled it at 8.30pm due to bad weather conditions. But 4 flights took off after that for the same destiantion at 20:50 (9W) 2128 (IT) 2130 (AI) 2330 (VS)
So if others left within a hour of BA cancelling theirs what could be the reason behind that? Is this normally due to the requirement for the Airplane on a different route the next day? But then with more or less a few other flights delayed/cancelled isn't it better to operate this flight and use the equipment from one of the other ones that were cancelled too?
So if others left within a hour of BA cancelling theirs what could be the reason behind that? Is this normally due to the requirement for the Airplane on a different route the next day? But then with more or less a few other flights delayed/cancelled isn't it better to operate this flight and use the equipment from one of the other ones that were cancelled too?
Dec 2, 2010, 12:24 am
#2
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: GRR, USA
Posts: 3,298
Rather just wondering why they would cancel a flight when the others to the same destination took off. ? BA 257 last night was meant to depart at 3.25pm and they cancelled it at 8.30pm due to bad weather conditions. But 4 flights took off after that for the same destiantion at 20:50 (9W) 2128 (IT) 2130 (AI) 2330 (VS)
So if others left within a hour of BA cancelling theirs what could be the reason behind that? Is this normally due to the requirement for the Airplane on a different route the next day? But then with more or less a few other flights delayed/cancelled isn't it better to operate this flight and use the equipment from one of the other ones that were cancelled too?
So if others left within a hour of BA cancelling theirs what could be the reason behind that? Is this normally due to the requirement for the Airplane on a different route the next day? But then with more or less a few other flights delayed/cancelled isn't it better to operate this flight and use the equipment from one of the other ones that were cancelled too?
Dec 2, 2010, 12:27 am
#3
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Dec 2, 2010, 12:45 am
#4
Join Date: Mar 2010
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The following is just an excerpt I found, others may have more details
A brief review of US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) flight time and rest rules for scheduled domestic commercial carriers (US Code Title 14, part 121.471) are as follows:
Crewmember total flying time maximum of:
1000 hours in any calendar year
100 hours in any calendar month
30 hours in any 7 consecutive days
8 hours between required rest periods
Rest for scheduled flight during the 24 hours preceding the completion of any flight segment:
9 consecutive of hours rest for less than 8 hours scheduled flight time
10 hours rest for 8 hours or more, but less than 9 hours scheduled flight time
11 hours rest for 9 hours or more scheduled flight time
Read the entire section for exceptions (18).
The flight crew duty day starts with check-in, and is considered concluded at block-in plus 15 minutes for that days final flight. Rest periods are times when the crewmember is not scheduled for flying duty. These are not periods of restful sleep. Adequate restful sleep, however, must be achievable during these rest periods. In addition to FAA regulations, company rules and practices also influence crew scheduling and rest issues. Company contracts with pilots, scheduling practices for bids and reserve, and productivity demands all play a part in the balance between work requirements and crew rest.
A brief review of US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) flight time and rest rules for scheduled domestic commercial carriers (US Code Title 14, part 121.471) are as follows:
Crewmember total flying time maximum of:
1000 hours in any calendar year
100 hours in any calendar month
30 hours in any 7 consecutive days
8 hours between required rest periods
Rest for scheduled flight during the 24 hours preceding the completion of any flight segment:
9 consecutive of hours rest for less than 8 hours scheduled flight time
10 hours rest for 8 hours or more, but less than 9 hours scheduled flight time
11 hours rest for 9 hours or more scheduled flight time
Read the entire section for exceptions (18).
The flight crew duty day starts with check-in, and is considered concluded at block-in plus 15 minutes for that days final flight. Rest periods are times when the crewmember is not scheduled for flying duty. These are not periods of restful sleep. Adequate restful sleep, however, must be achievable during these rest periods. In addition to FAA regulations, company rules and practices also influence crew scheduling and rest issues. Company contracts with pilots, scheduling practices for bids and reserve, and productivity demands all play a part in the balance between work requirements and crew rest.
Dec 2, 2010, 1:37 am
#5
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,071
BA Crews and indeed all crews that fly for a UK based airline are not subject to the FAA rules regarding fatigue. The relevant CAA document for UK flight crews is CAP371. BA crews have their relevant rules in their own manuals (JPMs) which deviate slightly from CAP371 but these changes are agreed and sanctioned by the CAA. They also have industrial agreements which may be more restrictive than the JPM. These industrial agreements may be more restrictive and may or may not be relevant depending on the militancy of the crew.
Highlights include:
Minimum rest period is 12 hours or the length of the preceding duty if that duty period exceeds 12 hours. This is reduced by one hour for cabin crew.
Maximum flight time of 100 hours in a 28 day period and 900 hours in a year.
The whole document is quite complex and requires some study. There are many exceptions and options to make some slight changes.
Highlights include:
Minimum rest period is 12 hours or the length of the preceding duty if that duty period exceeds 12 hours. This is reduced by one hour for cabin crew.
Maximum flight time of 100 hours in a 28 day period and 900 hours in a year.
The whole document is quite complex and requires some study. There are many exceptions and options to make some slight changes.
Dec 2, 2010, 2:13 am
#6
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Programs: BAEC Silver, SPG Gold
Posts: 1,020
Just been checking duty hours and the crew would have been "out of hours".
They could work for 14 hours according to Scheme (CAA rules), on duty at LHR at 13:55 GMT, off duty in Delhi at scheduled arrival, 23:25 GMT, duty of 9 hours 30 minutes, add the 5 hour delay and the new expected duty is 14 hrs 30 mins.
Crew could still go under these circumstances but only if the Captain exercised his maximum 3 hours Discretion to extend the duty day. If discretion was used then flight crew need to explain their reasoning to the CAA and I suspect if there was a chance the flight would be delayed further they just decided to call it a day.
Industrial rules do not apply in this case as Scheme is far more restrictive...
They could work for 14 hours according to Scheme (CAA rules), on duty at LHR at 13:55 GMT, off duty in Delhi at scheduled arrival, 23:25 GMT, duty of 9 hours 30 minutes, add the 5 hour delay and the new expected duty is 14 hrs 30 mins.
Crew could still go under these circumstances but only if the Captain exercised his maximum 3 hours Discretion to extend the duty day. If discretion was used then flight crew need to explain their reasoning to the CAA and I suspect if there was a chance the flight would be delayed further they just decided to call it a day.
Industrial rules do not apply in this case as Scheme is far more restrictive...
Dec 2, 2010, 2:19 am
#7
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Programs: BAEC Silver, SPG Gold
Posts: 1,020
Unless crew are notified at home or the hotel of a delay, the clock starts counting when they check-in at the airport. The reason being at home or a hotel the crew can rest properly, however once at the airport this is not possible and for safety reason the clock ticks away, as does the crew's alertness...