ithinkurdumb

I experienced that myself when I arrived TPE a month ago. We were given the plastic jars in the arrival hall. The jars had no label on them. After we went to the booths to spit into the jars, we handed them to the collection staff, who put the jars on the table. As I handed the jar to the staff, there were at least 10 jars on the table that had no label on them. Perhaps the staff has photographic memory *and* mask-compatible facial recognition capability. Otherwise I don't see how the jars are labeled properly afterward.

The ignorance was on full display when the person in charge mocked that the world would "have a hard time catching Taiwan" in February.

Also, a reduction of testing usually ends up with a reduction of reported cases.

the188

Every country is different. But the lesson to learn is that no matter what you do, there will be idiots you can't do anything about. So don't plan around converting them over to rational though.

The US CDC used the best science available at the time when it relaxed masking for vaccinated individuals, all of this was also was pre-Delta. The US never lost momentum, the vaccination rate reached about exactly the same as the polls showed it would months earlier. The US has a huge problem with science denying anti-vaxxers. No matter what the CDC would have done they would have refused the vaccine and they continue to refuse the vaccine. The change from last year is now only the anti-vaxxers are dying, so its a personal choice as they want. We could go back to 3000 dead a day in the USA, and aside from the fact that their bodies clog up the hospitals, potentially denying care to other patients, there is really not much impact on the rest of society now.

Once the vaccine is available to the general population and the vulnerable individuals are covered, there is no reason for civilization to be held hostage by those that choose to be ignorant. In a democracy you can only help those who are willing to accept help.

freed0m

They are all just excuses. I did not imply that the government should have just taken vaccine from Fosun. If the government wanted to play politics, it should have prepared to accept whatever consequence possibly have come and have had a backup plan. It is about the lives and the livelihood of the public. It got be worth more planning in the eyes of politicians.

For a complete different matter, for years, Taiwan people have been taking the mainland Chinese money without problem and even been investing in mainland China. Maybe the mainland Chinese money is cleansed.

jysim

Agreed. Plenty of arguments now about why didn't we do this, how come we did that etc. Yet back in February no one knew we would have a cluster 3 months later. Back then the first batch of AZ we received (in March) even nearly went past its expiry date as nobody was interested in getting inoculated; the world, and so did the government thought vaccines would be passé by end of the year. In regards to SARS-CoV-2 there are still plenty of unknowns, and while we all agree Taiwan made a few mistakes, I think to be overly critical based solely on hindsight is counterproductive to the overall narrative.

That was one of the many issues put forward by skeptics before the local outbreak. Being a frontliner myself, I have to say the hospital scene before and after May was completely different. Even if the government did hide the numbers by making tests difficult to access and expensive, it could not hide the fact that ICUs and beds were at capacity necessitating patients to be transferred to Central and Southern Taiwan AFTER Level 3, yet before that it was as normal as it had been for the past 1.5 years.

Back to the topic of reopening borders, with so many of our South East Asian neighbors struggling with Delta, and our heavy reliance on foreign labor, I would assume borders to remain shut until next year at the very least. My parents live in Penang and I can't wait to see them. My grandmother passed away in April and during the darkest days I had even thought of taking a long leave of absence just to pay my last respects. Anyhow, these will eventually blow over and IMO so far we are doing not bad at all given what we have.

Skyman65

Yeah, I feel you. My parents are in the US and I haven't seen them in nearly 3 years. We originally planned to fly back in summer 2020, but that trip got scrubbed--all the flights were cancelled. Now I don't know when we'll be able to go back, and my mom is starting to go downhill with Alzheimer's.

a5un

May I ask why you can't plan another trip to US? There is no entry restriction for US currently, except for EU and a handful other countries. There's no quarantine requirement either.
I'm in the same boat as I have families in South East Asia and I'm unable to enter the countries, either at all or suffer cumbersome quarantines.

s0ssos

No, that's not true at all. No scientist would say that is the best science available.
There are no randomized-controlled trials regarding vaccinated individuals transmitting COVID. So how could it be good science? At best there were observational trials. But there weren't even that. So, anecdotes? Observation? Look at the hierarchy of studies. That simply isn't good science.

It is very hard to prove something like vaccinated people cannot spread COVID. We don't have any experiments on transmitting COVID because people think it is not ethical. Why is there no defined "minimal infectious dose?" Because that simply doesn't exist for any infectious disease.

I don't see how relaxing mask requirements was beneficial. Masks don't harm anybody. There is only a downside. Everything else is a risk benefit analysis (eg seatbelts are good for everybody, but every now and then someone dies because their car gets submerged in the water and they cannot get the seatbelt off. So is the solution to make it so nobody has to wear seatbelts?). And if there is no benefit to "relaxing the mask policy" there is simply no reason to. That is just simple logic.

Skyman65

My home is in Taiwan. My job is in Taiwan.

Yes, I can get into the US without problem. But I run the risk of picking up the virus in transit, and bringing it into the home of my elderly (mid-80s) parents. I am currently only half-vaccinated. My parents were fully vaccinated in Feb. But with delta raging in the US right now, and the number of reported breakthrough cases, it's not a risk I'd like to take right now, given their poor health. And if I get sick during my visit, I have no US health insurance, and cannot afford the insane out-of-pocket costs of medical care in the US.

Then there is the issue of getting back into Taiwan, which under CURRENT rules, I would be allowed to do--with a 14-day quarantine in a designated quarantine hotel, solo (can't share room with wife), at our expense (about US$2000 for both of us). And there is the risk that the entry rules may change while I'm away, and I won't be able to get back in.

If I'm going to make a trip all the way back to the US, I'm going to need to stay at least two weeks, minimum, to make it worthwhile. Then I'm facing another two weeks quarantine upon return. That's a minimum of taking a month off work. I am a teacher. Where I work, I only have two weeks off in the summer, and one week for Chinese New Year. That means summer is the only time I can make the trip the the US and keep my job, and right now, with the quarantine rule, it's just not possible.

Yes, I could quit my job if I really wanted to. But I've got a pretty nice situation going, and it would be quite a sacrifice to give it up. It is unlikely I could find an equivalent position to replace it.

nightkhan

Entering the US isn't the problem, it's the return trip and logistics. I'm in the US and I haven't seen my family since Feb last year. My mom is in an elderly assisted care home and they have their own separate quarantine rules on top of the government 2-week quarantine as well for visitors. My brother and I were planning on doing the 2 week quarantine prior to the COVID outbreak in Taiwan earlier this year, and then just having our mom come out and see us (socially distanced of course). But then they had their outbreak, then new quarantine rules applied, so now we're back to being in limbo.

ithinkurdumb

My point was more about how the TW government not spending any real effort on testing, and betting everything on border control. Back in August last year, there was a Belgian wind turbine engineer that tested positive after departed from Taiwan. Despite having spent 86 days in Taiwan, TW CDC insisted that he caught COVID prior to entering Taiwan, and established that COVID can incubate for at least 86 days. Ironically, all inbound passengers could exit quarantine after 14 days without any test. The quarantine policy only changed two months ago, and yet again, 3 out of the 4 tests done on arriving passengers are not enforced or properly done.

The hospital scene definitely changed a lot before/after May. Thank you for your service working the front line and sorry about your loss. I entirely agree that most of the private citizens have done their best to protect themselves and help others. It's just a shame that the government only seems to be interested in propaganda and tweeting #TaiwanCanHelp on Twitter.

It's not enforced or required, but the CDC recommends unvaccinated people should stay home and self-quarantine for 7 days after arriving the US.

I believe most of the people, vaccinated or not, are hindered by the ever-changing, never-clearly-documented entry requirements for arriving Taiwan. Having to quarantine alone (not even with spouse even if traveling together) for 15 days either at a hotel that charges double or at a barracks that charges $85/night is a strong deterrent.

lin821

https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/fro.../20/2003741975

3HEND

Having a ticket in feb 22 should I cancel it? Would really like to go but IŽll need to cancel soon...

Skyman65

Coming in as a tourist?

There's really no way to predict what the rules will be in Feb, so all we can do is guess. And my best guess is that the borders will still be closed to tourists in Feb. But that's just a guess.

gengar

I'd certainly cancel.

3HEND

Thanks. It hurts since it would be my first time in Taiwan...