Points Clawed Back - Upgraded for bonus, downgraded in less than 12 months.
Mar 26, 2021, 9:39 am
#16
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: MSP
Programs: Marriott Lifetime Titanium, UA Silver, Hertz 5*
Posts: 913
Just logged into my online account and saw an offer to upgrade to the EDP for 25K after a $2K spend. The exact same offer I had accepted back in Sept. LMFAO!
I guess one could keep downgrading and upgrading every year picking up 25K points for a $95 annual fee. I haven't clicked the accept button yet. I'll wait a few months using the regular ED card before accepting again.
I guess one could keep downgrading and upgrading every year picking up 25K points for a $95 annual fee. I haven't clicked the accept button yet. I'll wait a few months using the regular ED card before accepting again.
Mar 26, 2021, 3:00 pm
#17
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Truth or Consequences, NM
Programs: HH Diamond, Marriott Titanium, Hertz President's Circle, UA Silver, Mobile Passport Unobtanium
Posts: 6,193
I've closed several cards after one year has passed with no apparent consequences.
Mar 26, 2021, 7:01 pm
#18
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: EWR
Programs: World of Hyatt, Marriott Bonvoy, Hilton Honors, UA Mileage Plus
Posts: 1,255
Yea, the issue is that when you upgrade form the ED to the EDP you have to keep track of when you did the upgrade. So if you upgrade and receive a prorated fee for $47.50, you will be charged $95 6 months later. You then have to keep the card an additional 6 months and downgrade and get your $47.50 refund.
The tricky thing with the upgrade offers is that AMEX prorated the annual fee daily. So when you do an upgrade offer from ED to EDP you almost always will end up paying more than $95 since you likely won’t be able to downgrade exactly 365 days later to be safe.
The tricky thing with the upgrade offers is that AMEX prorated the annual fee daily. So when you do an upgrade offer from ED to EDP you almost always will end up paying more than $95 since you likely won’t be able to downgrade exactly 365 days later to be safe.
Mar 28, 2021, 10:49 pm
#20
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,762
Apr 1, 2021, 12:51 am
#21
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: SFO/LAX/SAN/LAS/DFW/JFK/LGA/EWR/MIA
Posts: 1,073
Honestly, I now wonder if this has in some way blacklisted me (or at the very least put me on some kind of naughty list) with Amex. If I were you, I'd probably look to keep the card for an additional year and try and get a retention bonus to offset the second year's annual fee. 2 years seems to be the new safe spot now. I upgraded from the ED to the EDP by simply clicking the upgrade offer that showed up under My Offers and didn't bother to read the T&Cs. Lost 25K MR.
Does anyone have any data points on whether future applications for new cards are approved/rejected based on a past clawback of points?
Does anyone have any data points on whether future applications for new cards are approved/rejected based on a past clawback of points?
Just logged into my online account and saw an offer to upgrade to the EDP for 25K after a $2K spend. The exact same offer I had accepted back in Sept. LMFAO!
I guess one could keep downgrading and upgrading every year picking up 25K points for a $95 annual fee. I haven't clicked the accept button yet. I'll wait a few months using the regular ED card before accepting again.
I guess one could keep downgrading and upgrading every year picking up 25K points for a $95 annual fee. I haven't clicked the accept button yet. I'll wait a few months using the regular ED card before accepting again.
if you value amex, just dont do it.
Oct 7, 2021, 2:58 pm
#22
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 84
yes.
amex is not stupid. plenty of people play the up/down game. just like the pay over time, self referral, multiple AU bonuses, NLL, high volume MS and airline credit games. many get attacked by the RAT. either shutdown, FR, MR frozen, lifetime popup ban etc.
if you value amex, just dont do it.
amex is not stupid. plenty of people play the up/down game. just like the pay over time, self referral, multiple AU bonuses, NLL, high volume MS and airline credit games. many get attacked by the RAT. either shutdown, FR, MR frozen, lifetime popup ban etc.
if you value amex, just dont do it.
1) What will happen if she closes out her Everyday Card account and thus closes her Membership Rewards account?
2) What will American Express do with the negative Membership Reward balance?
3) What is her best strategy at this point? Keep the card open with the -25,000 MR balance or close the card?
Oct 7, 2021, 4:35 pm
#23
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: SFO/LAX/SAN/LAS/DFW/JFK/LGA/EWR/MIA
Posts: 1,073
Today, my daughter had a -25,000 Membership debit applied to her Everyday Card account (she recently downgraded from an Everyday Preferred Card to an Everyday Card to avoid the $95 annual fee). So she now has a -25,000 balance.
1) What will happen if she closes out her Everyday Card account and thus closes her Membership Rewards account?
2) What will American Express do with the negative Membership Reward balance?
3) What is her best strategy at this point? Keep the card open with the -25,000 MR balance or close the card?
1) What will happen if she closes out her Everyday Card account and thus closes her Membership Rewards account?
2) What will American Express do with the negative Membership Reward balance?
3) What is her best strategy at this point? Keep the card open with the -25,000 MR balance or close the card?
1) you can but why? you close the MR account. you delete the -25k. many do this to game the system.
2) nothing except amex may remember that you are a piece of poo. and you may have issues later like popup etc.
3) keep card open. make up what you owe via spending and other bonuses. go apply for another amex CC and get the bonus to clear this debt. why? stay good with amex. but many dont care. OK, then burn the bridge. close the account and forget it. amex may ban you forever w/ no bonus on future CCs.
Oct 7, 2021, 7:26 pm
#24
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 84
first of all, this is nothing. this is the MOST BASIC type of clawback. typical CC closure before terms are met. nothing to worry about. just dont keep doing it.
1) you can but why? you close the MR account. you delete the -25k. many do this to game the system.
2) nothing except amex may remember that you are a piece of poo. and you may have issues later like popup etc.
3) keep card open. make up what you owe via spending and other bonuses. go apply for another amex CC and get the bonus to clear this debt. why? stay good with amex. but many dont care. OK, then burn the bridge. close the account and forget it. amex may ban you forever w/ no bonus on future CCs.
1) you can but why? you close the MR account. you delete the -25k. many do this to game the system.
2) nothing except amex may remember that you are a piece of poo. and you may have issues later like popup etc.
3) keep card open. make up what you owe via spending and other bonuses. go apply for another amex CC and get the bonus to clear this debt. why? stay good with amex. but many dont care. OK, then burn the bridge. close the account and forget it. amex may ban you forever w/ no bonus on future CCs.
Oct 7, 2021, 9:26 pm
#25
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Los Angeles, CA; Philadelphia, PA
Programs: OZ Diamond
Posts: 6,134
Today, my daughter had a -25,000 Membership debit applied to her Everyday Card account (she recently downgraded from an Everyday Preferred Card to an Everyday Card to avoid the $95 annual fee). So she now has a -25,000 balance.
1) What will happen if she closes out her Everyday Card account and thus closes her Membership Rewards account?
2) What will American Express do with the negative Membership Reward balance?
3) What is her best strategy at this point? Keep the card open with the -25,000 MR balance or close the card?
1) What will happen if she closes out her Everyday Card account and thus closes her Membership Rewards account?
2) What will American Express do with the negative Membership Reward balance?
3) What is her best strategy at this point? Keep the card open with the -25,000 MR balance or close the card?
LAX
Oct 7, 2021, 10:33 pm
#26
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 84
Oct 7, 2021, 10:54 pm
#27
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Los Angeles, CA; Philadelphia, PA
Programs: OZ Diamond
Posts: 6,134
The $95 annual fee did post a couple weeks ago (in Sept 2021). She originally had a Everyday Card (opened Oct 2020) and upgraded to a Everyday Preferred Card (MAR 2021) for a 25k MR bonus. She made a mistake and downgraded back to the Everyday Card (Oct 2021) before the 365 day mark on the Everyday Preferred Card. For some reason, Amex does not prorate the annual fee, like it does on their other cards.
LAX
Oct 8, 2021, 4:22 am
#28
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: SFO/LAX/SAN/LAS/DFW/JFK/LGA/EWR/MIA
Posts: 1,073
You make some good points. They did not shut down all of her Amex accounts and block her from applying for new Amex cards--instead they gave her a slap on the wrist and said do not close your card before the 365 days as written in the T&Cs. I will tell her to make up for the lost ground through spending and applying for new Amex accounts.
Mar 2, 2022, 2:00 am
#30
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 72