Who else has the Platinum, Gold, AND CSR?
Oct 21, 2018, 9:55 am
#16
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: EWR
Programs: World of Hyatt, Marriott Bonvoy, Hilton Honors, UA Mileage Plus
Posts: 1,255
To preface, each person needs to determine the value of each card for themself. I will go through my rationale, but it may not work for you.
1) I only redeem UR for two redemptions: United transfers and Hyatt transfers
2) United transfers are usually worth about 1.5 cents to me and Hyatt transfers are usually worth about 2.5 cents to
me, so let’s split the difference and say 1 UR is worth $0.02.
3) CSR has a $450 annual fee. It offers a $300 travel credit which you earn no rewards for. The $300 on the CIP would earn 900 UR worth $18.00. If you value the $300 at face value (I don’t) you at best can say the CSRs credit is worth $282. $450 - 282 = $168. $168 - $95 (CIP AF) = $73.
So the question is, does the CSR offer $73 of benefits? Let’s go through them:
1) Priority Pass: $0. If you have a Platinum card you have Priority Pass. I personally almost never get to use PP lounges because they either aren’t in the terminal I am flying out of or they are overcapacity and I’m denied entrance. I don’t even bother trying to get in one anymore.
2) Global Entry reimbursement: $0. I get this on my no annual fee FNBO Travelite AMEX
3) Trip delay. This one is difficult to determine. FNBO Travelite AMEX also offers this on a free no annual fee basis with the same 6 hour delay. However it only offers a reimbursement up to $200 as opposed to $500 for the CSR. Regardless I have never used trip delay insurance so I am inclined to value this at $0 especially since I am covered with a no AF card.
4) Primary car rental insurance. I don’t really rent cars in the United States often, but let’s say I have one 5 day domestic rental a year at $9/day for CDW. That’s $45. Or I could use AMEX CDW for $19.95. So for me, this benefit is worth $19.95. If I rent a car for work I am covered by my company’s rental coverage.
5) Points earning. I would rather get 4x AMEX points on US Dining than 3x UR. I would get 3x UR for travel via CIP or CSR. So that means I only would use CSR for dining expenses abroad. My alternative would be the Uber Visa which earns 4% cashback with no FTF. How much do I need to spend for it to make sens? $73 annual fee difference - $19.95 in benefits = $53.05. 3x UR = $0.06 - Uber Visa $0.04 = $0.02 incremental spend 53.05/$0.02 = $2652.50. I would need to spend $2652.50 on international dining for the CSR to make sense for me to keep. I don’t spend $2652.50 on international dining, and I certainly don’t think keeping a card for the chance of making perhaps a few extra cents in rewards is worth it.
In short, the CSR is too much work to get value out of these days. Of course, do your own calculation and see what makes sense.
Last edited by jags86; Oct 21, 2018 at 10:14 am
Oct 21, 2018, 11:47 am
#17
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Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: EWR/PHL/BWI
Posts: 4,412
As we all said, we all have different ways of managing the point value, redemption, travel partners, spending habits etc. It is extremely difficult to have some clear cut to fit each one's situation.
The AmEx MR and Chase UR are the two main reward systems. We also get Citi TY, BofA, Barclay etc. But also remember that not everyone can get all the cards mentioned here. Chase has the 5/24 and AmEx gets really tight with the welcome bonus etc.
Also some people say AmEx Centurion and Chase Reserve cards do not offer much value. But still a lot of people have been working really hard to get them. Good question to ask them why.
You can keep doing your math, but there are also other factors, such as retention bonus, deals and offers. Everyone has to decide on his/her own.
The AmEx MR and Chase UR are the two main reward systems. We also get Citi TY, BofA, Barclay etc. But also remember that not everyone can get all the cards mentioned here. Chase has the 5/24 and AmEx gets really tight with the welcome bonus etc.
Also some people say AmEx Centurion and Chase Reserve cards do not offer much value. But still a lot of people have been working really hard to get them. Good question to ask them why.
You can keep doing your math, but there are also other factors, such as retention bonus, deals and offers. Everyone has to decide on his/her own.
Oct 21, 2018, 12:32 pm
#18
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: EWR
Programs: World of Hyatt, Marriott Bonvoy, Hilton Honors, UA Mileage Plus
Posts: 1,255
As we all said, we all have different ways of managing the point value, redemption, travel partners, spending habits etc. It is extremely difficult to have some clear cut to fit each one's situation.
The AmEx MR and Chase UR are the two main reward systems. We also get Citi TY, BofA, Barclay etc. But also remember that not everyone can get all the cards mentioned here. Chase has the 5/24 and AmEx gets really tight with the welcome bonus etc.
Also some people say AmEx Centurion and Chase Reserve cards do not offer much value. But still a lot of people have been working really hard to get them. Good question to ask them why.
You can keep doing your math, but there are also other factors, such as retention bonus, deals and offers. Everyone has to decide on his/her own.
The AmEx MR and Chase UR are the two main reward systems. We also get Citi TY, BofA, Barclay etc. But also remember that not everyone can get all the cards mentioned here. Chase has the 5/24 and AmEx gets really tight with the welcome bonus etc.
Also some people say AmEx Centurion and Chase Reserve cards do not offer much value. But still a lot of people have been working really hard to get them. Good question to ask them why.
You can keep doing your math, but there are also other factors, such as retention bonus, deals and offers. Everyone has to decide on his/her own.
Amex Centurian and Chase Reserve don’t offer much value and if you just want them for “prestige” then power to you.
I will continue to do the math and I strongly encourage you to do the same. This is a game of numbers.
Oct 21, 2018, 12:38 pm
#19
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: LAS ORD
Programs: AA Pro (mostly B6) OZ♦ (flying BR/UA), BA Silver Hyatt LT, Wynn Black, Cosmo Plat, Mlife Noir
Posts: 5,992
Same, and a no-brainer really given my travel/usage.
A lot of pros/cons have been listed in this thread, but to me a huge benefit of the CSR is the baseline redemption value (1.5x travel portal or even just cashout for 1cpp), which MR just doesn't have. Obviously I'd rather transfer to partners for premium cabin travel, but it's nice to know I have that baseline value. I earn far faster than I burn, so if I have to bank a lot, I'm banking URs.
A lot of pros/cons have been listed in this thread, but to me a huge benefit of the CSR is the baseline redemption value (1.5x travel portal or even just cashout for 1cpp), which MR just doesn't have. Obviously I'd rather transfer to partners for premium cabin travel, but it's nice to know I have that baseline value. I earn far faster than I burn, so if I have to bank a lot, I'm banking URs.
Oct 21, 2018, 1:23 pm
#20
Join Date: Aug 2017
Programs: Hilton Diamond, IHG Spire Ambassador, Global Entry
Posts: 2,871
I can't personally see a ton of scenarios how all 3 would be a good deal. I'd be curious to know how that works for some of you. At that point, the Gold is worthless for Travel. Debatable on dining vs CSR. Dining is worthless overseas and at smaller places that don't take American Express. Solid for supermarkets, if you spend a lot there. The dining credit is nice, but it is typical American Express to put in a lot of effort to get your money's worth.
There's too much overlap of benefits and categories here. It also requires a huge amount of planning and effort to utilize all of these perks. Then you still have categories not covered like cable/internet, gas, mobile payments, and everyday purchases.
There's too much overlap of benefits and categories here. It also requires a huge amount of planning and effort to utilize all of these perks. Then you still have categories not covered like cable/internet, gas, mobile payments, and everyday purchases.
Oct 21, 2018, 4:12 pm
#21
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Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: EWR/PHL/BWI
Posts: 4,412
I don’t think it makes sense to keep the CSR anymore if you have the new Gold Card. You can use your Ink Preferred for 3x travel US and Int’l, and you can get the Uber Visa for 4% cashback and 0% FTF on international dining. If you assume 1 UR = $0.015 then the incremental annual fee from the Ink Preferred to the CSR is $68.50. ($450-$300+the $13.50 you no longer earn in rewards on that $300 in spend). To make up that $68.50 you’d need to spend $13,700 on international dining a year. Maybe some of you do I just don’t find that reasonable. The only other valuable benefit the CSR holds is the primary rental insurance and I really very rarely rent a domestic car for personal use.
Welcome bonuses should have nothing to do with whether or not you keep a card.
Amex Centurian and Chase Reserve don’t offer much value and if you just want them for “prestige” then power to you.
I will continue to do the math and I strongly encourage you to do the same. This is a game of numbers.
I do not count nickle and dine. We all say "cash is the King". Chase travel portal is as cold as cash redemption. It holds a lot of value, particularly on the economy or the value end.
Tell you about my experience early this year. Our high school organized a school trip to Europe for a couple hundreds students. Parents could book airfare for the students, but it should be on the same planes. Or parents arrange ground transportation to the hotel and responsible for the safety of the student. As expected, I got all my points ready to book the air tickets. Then the news came, the travel agent used one American and one United flight, both regular commercial flights. It was quite a few months ahead of the trip. When I tried to redeem my miles for either flight, the redemption costed double the regular published rates. This makes the redemption really bad. But the cash tickets could be bought at the same rate (or slightly cheaper, excluding some airport fees). I could have paid about $1,000 for the air ticket. But I chose to redeem my UR points at 1.5 cpp. Never regret to redeem 67,000 URs at 1.5 cpp. This is about the UR rewards I earned from two Freedom cards for the year.
We often hear travel bloggers telling people they can redeem points or miles at 3-5 cpp. A lot of that is crap. They are mostly first class or business class tickets. They would not get that same rates for regular fares, or the fares you really need. For retired people who really have flexible travel schedule, sure they can hunt for the best redemption. But for most of the people, it is not possible.
Also, the hotel room in NYC commend more reward points than in other cities. So the point redemption is very bad too. Often time, I just book from Chase travel portal. It is perfectly fine to redeem 15,000 URs to book a Hilton Garden Inn room near Time Square or Central Park. This is just half of the URs I can earn from a single Freedom card for the year.
Points are made to get spent. I accumulate more than 100,000 URs a year. Just for the 1.5x vs 1.25x UR, it is 100,000 x $0.0025 = $250 difference. I'll be glad to pay the $68 fee difference you mentioned in your post.
Sure it may not work for you if you just chose to ignore it.
Oct 21, 2018, 4:28 pm
#22
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,958
No. I choose not to redeem points that are worth $0.02+ for $0.015. I am not ignoring that option, I am explicitly choosing not to use it. If I need to buy a $1,000 ticket I use money, and save the points to use when I need to buy a $4,000 ticket.
Oct 21, 2018, 4:49 pm
#23
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: LAS ORD
Programs: AA Pro (mostly B6) OZ♦ (flying BR/UA), BA Silver Hyatt LT, Wynn Black, Cosmo Plat, Mlife Noir
Posts: 5,992
The CSR is still valuable because I travel a lot internationally. Also, as I mentioned above, when I'm banking points I'll still prefer accumulating URs because of the guaranteed baseline redemption value.
Oct 21, 2018, 4:50 pm
#24
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: EWR
Programs: World of Hyatt, Marriott Bonvoy, Hilton Honors, UA Mileage Plus
Posts: 1,255
You chose to ignore the 1.5x vs 1.25x UR multiplier difference.
I do not count nickle and dine. We all say "cash is the King". Chase travel portal is as cold as cash redemption. It holds a lot of value, particularly on the economy or the value end.
Tell you about my experience early this year. Our high school organized a school trip to Europe for a couple hundreds students. Parents could book airfare for the students, but it should be on the same planes. Or parents arrange ground transportation to the hotel and responsible for the safety of the student. As expected, I got all my points ready to book the air tickets. Then the news came, the travel agent used one American and one United flight, both regular commercial flights. It was quite a few months ahead of the trip. When I tried to redeem my miles for either flight, the redemption costed double the regular published rates. This makes the redemption really bad. But the cash tickets could be bought at the same rate (or slightly cheaper, excluding some airport fees). I could have paid about $1,000 for the air ticket. But I chose to redeem my UR points at 1.5 cpp. Never regret to redeem 67,000 URs at 1.5 cpp. This is about the UR rewards I earned from two Freedom cards for the year.
We often hear travel bloggers telling people they can redeem points or miles at 3-5 cpp. A lot of that is crap. They are mostly first class or business class tickets. They would not get that same rates for regular fares, or the fares you really need. For retired people who really have flexible travel schedule, sure they can hunt for the best redemption. But for most of the people, it is not possible.
Also, the hotel room in NYC commend more reward points than in other cities. So the point redemption is very bad too. Often time, I just book from Chase travel portal. It is perfectly fine to redeem 15,000 URs to book a Hilton Garden Inn room near Time Square or Central Park. This is just half of the URs I can earn from a single Freedom card for the year.
Points are made to get spent. I accumulate more than 100,000 URs a year. Just for the 1.5x vs 1.25x UR, it is 100,000 x $0.0025 = $250 difference. I'll be glad to pay the $68 fee difference you mentioned in your post.
Sure it may not work for you if you just chose to ignore it.
I do not count nickle and dine. We all say "cash is the King". Chase travel portal is as cold as cash redemption. It holds a lot of value, particularly on the economy or the value end.
Tell you about my experience early this year. Our high school organized a school trip to Europe for a couple hundreds students. Parents could book airfare for the students, but it should be on the same planes. Or parents arrange ground transportation to the hotel and responsible for the safety of the student. As expected, I got all my points ready to book the air tickets. Then the news came, the travel agent used one American and one United flight, both regular commercial flights. It was quite a few months ahead of the trip. When I tried to redeem my miles for either flight, the redemption costed double the regular published rates. This makes the redemption really bad. But the cash tickets could be bought at the same rate (or slightly cheaper, excluding some airport fees). I could have paid about $1,000 for the air ticket. But I chose to redeem my UR points at 1.5 cpp. Never regret to redeem 67,000 URs at 1.5 cpp. This is about the UR rewards I earned from two Freedom cards for the year.
We often hear travel bloggers telling people they can redeem points or miles at 3-5 cpp. A lot of that is crap. They are mostly first class or business class tickets. They would not get that same rates for regular fares, or the fares you really need. For retired people who really have flexible travel schedule, sure they can hunt for the best redemption. But for most of the people, it is not possible.
Also, the hotel room in NYC commend more reward points than in other cities. So the point redemption is very bad too. Often time, I just book from Chase travel portal. It is perfectly fine to redeem 15,000 URs to book a Hilton Garden Inn room near Time Square or Central Park. This is just half of the URs I can earn from a single Freedom card for the year.
Points are made to get spent. I accumulate more than 100,000 URs a year. Just for the 1.5x vs 1.25x UR, it is 100,000 x $0.0025 = $250 difference. I'll be glad to pay the $68 fee difference you mentioned in your post.
Sure it may not work for you if you just chose to ignore it.
Oct 21, 2018, 5:22 pm
#25
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Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: EWR/PHL/BWI
Posts: 4,412
If I'm always redeeming my points at around a $0.02 valuation why would I ever use them for a 1.5cpp redemption? I pay cash in that situation and save the points for another day. You choose to make subpar redemptions. I don't see how that changes anything I wrote. But if it makes YOU feel better go ahead. The original question was how do you justify having AMEX Gold, Platinum, and CSR. Unless you have an extremely specific spending pattern, I don't think you can from a dollar and cents perspective. That's the only perspective I care about when it comes to credit cards.
I do not just look at the leaves or branches. I look at the entire forest. As I said again, points are made to get spent. Idle points get no value. I can earn them this year, spend, and earn again next year. The money I saved can grow this year and again next year. Points can only lose value....
I think you focus too much on pure point value and forget what the true value is.
Oct 21, 2018, 5:28 pm
#26
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Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: EWR/PHL/BWI
Posts: 4,412
Always remember that the higher price the ticket is, the higher redemption rate it is normally. You almost always get low redemption rate if you book economy ticket, and much higher redemption rate with first class ticket.
Oct 21, 2018, 6:29 pm
#27
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: EWR
Programs: World of Hyatt, Marriott Bonvoy, Hilton Honors, UA Mileage Plus
Posts: 1,255
RedSun,
You decide what you want the points to be worth for you. If I assume UR are worth $0.02 each, it still does not make sense for me to keep the CSR. If I assume they are worth less than that it makes even less sense to keep the CSR.The option to redeem UR at $0.015 per point via the Chase portal is a good feature, but it’s not enough for me to warrant keeping the card because I typically redeem the points for more than that value and the math still says not to keep the card.
I personally plan on redeeming my $300 credit in January and then downgrade to Chase Freedom, and upgrade my Ink Cash to a CIP.
You decide what you want the points to be worth for you. If I assume UR are worth $0.02 each, it still does not make sense for me to keep the CSR. If I assume they are worth less than that it makes even less sense to keep the CSR.The option to redeem UR at $0.015 per point via the Chase portal is a good feature, but it’s not enough for me to warrant keeping the card because I typically redeem the points for more than that value and the math still says not to keep the card.
I personally plan on redeeming my $300 credit in January and then downgrade to Chase Freedom, and upgrade my Ink Cash to a CIP.
Oct 21, 2018, 6:33 pm
#28
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,958
I don't think I understand the question. The examples mentioned would be for different trips. The $1,000 flight would be a domestic (first class) flight. The $4,000 flight would be a transatlantic (business class) flight.
Oct 21, 2018, 6:35 pm
#29
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: EWR/PHL/BWI
Posts: 4,412
RedSun,
You decide what you want the points to be worth for you. If I assume UR are worth $0.02 each, it still does not make sense for me to keep the CSR. If I assume they are worth less than that it makes even less sense to keep the CSR.The option to redeem UR at $0.015 per point via the Chase portal is a good feature, but it’s not enough for me to warrant keeping the card because I typically redeem the points for more than that value and the math still says not to keep the card.
I personally plan on redeeming my $300 credit in January and then downgrade to Chase Freedom, and upgrade my Ink Cash to a CIP.
You decide what you want the points to be worth for you. If I assume UR are worth $0.02 each, it still does not make sense for me to keep the CSR. If I assume they are worth less than that it makes even less sense to keep the CSR.The option to redeem UR at $0.015 per point via the Chase portal is a good feature, but it’s not enough for me to warrant keeping the card because I typically redeem the points for more than that value and the math still says not to keep the card.
I personally plan on redeeming my $300 credit in January and then downgrade to Chase Freedom, and upgrade my Ink Cash to a CIP.
A 1.5 cpp does not make it subpar and a 4 cpp redemption does not make it above par. It depend on how you redeem it.
Sure you decide what is good for you. Happy spending.
Oct 21, 2018, 6:42 pm
#30
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Truth or Consequences, NM
Programs: HH Diamond, Marriott Titanium, Hertz President's Circle, UA Silver, Mobile Passport Unobtanium
Posts: 6,195
I think you are still trapped in the pure value of the UR point. UR is not worth 2 cpp, or 1.5 cpp or 3 cpp. It all depends on how you use it, within the context of your travel or spending. I think there is a recent long discussion about the worth of UR. I ignored it since the point value is all over the place.
Sure you decide what is good for you. Happy spending.
Sure you decide what is good for you. Happy spending.
