Bye Bye pro-rated Annual Fee refunds (USA), September 2016, exceptions reported.
Jun 5, 2016, 6:55 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Lehigh Valley, Pennsylvania
Programs: Milege+, SkyMiles, AAdvantage, HHonors Diamond, Marriott Gold
Posts: 1,685
Bye Bye pro-rated Annual Fee refunds (USA), September 2016, exceptions reported.
Amex is terminating the pro-rated annual fee refunds on all their cards effective September 2016.
In my statement were these details:
In my statement were these details:
Closing your Account
We are changing our policy for refunding Annual Membership fees for voluntary account
cancellations taking place on or after September 1, 2016.
If an Annual Membership fee applies to your Account, we will refund this fee if you notify
us that you are voluntarily closing your Account within 30 days of the Closing Date of the
billing statement on which that fee appears. For cancellations after this 30 day period, the
Annual Membership fee is non-refundable.
For example, if your Annual Fee is charged on a billing statement on which the Closing
Date is April 2, you have until May 2 to voluntarily cancel your Account and receive a full
refund.
Please note that any Annual Membership fees for additional cards may appear on a
different billing statement than the Annual Membership fee for the Basic Card Member's
Account. This means that additional card fees may not be refunded if you cancel your
Account.
We are changing our policy for refunding Annual Membership fees for voluntary account
cancellations taking place on or after September 1, 2016.
If an Annual Membership fee applies to your Account, we will refund this fee if you notify
us that you are voluntarily closing your Account within 30 days of the Closing Date of the
billing statement on which that fee appears. For cancellations after this 30 day period, the
Annual Membership fee is non-refundable.
For example, if your Annual Fee is charged on a billing statement on which the Closing
Date is April 2, you have until May 2 to voluntarily cancel your Account and receive a full
refund.
Please note that any Annual Membership fees for additional cards may appear on a
different billing statement than the Annual Membership fee for the Basic Card Member's
Account. This means that additional card fees may not be refunded if you cancel your
Account.
Last edited by mia; Jun 5, 2016 at 7:06 am Reason: Formatting
Jun 5, 2016, 7:06 pm
#3
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,072
No surprise here. Sites like this one are full of people bragging about signing up for an Amex Platinum, meeting the minimum spending requirement, using the $100 Global Entry credit and the $200 travel credit, and then canceling the card within 30 days for a full AF refund.
Jun 6, 2016, 2:13 am
#4
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 8,460
No surprise here. Sites like this one are full of people bragging about signing up for an Amex Platinum, meeting the minimum spending requirement, using the $100 Global Entry credit and the $200 travel credit, and then canceling the card within 30 days for a full AF refund.
New CC holders will still have plenty of time to hit min spend, use the credits, and cancel the card within 30 days of the AF posting, and get the AF fully refunded.
Jun 6, 2016, 3:29 am
#5
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,072
Not if Amex starts making people wait 6 to 8 weeks for the points to post (or be accessible), as it started doing with the May 9-10 Amex Plat 100k sign-ups.
As with the other changes, they're not doing this just for the hell of it.
As with the other changes, they're not doing this just for the hell of it.
Jun 6, 2016, 6:06 am
#6
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 8,460
Most normal holders are probably unable to hit min spend so quickly as to be able to take advantage of all the benefits and cancel card in time to get AF refunded. So you're right, they not doing it for the hell of it. But the change certainly won't stop me or other churners like me.
Jun 6, 2016, 6:11 am
#7
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,956
I do not see this nearly as often as I see people realizing that they can collect a second $200 / $100 if they hold the card into the next calendar year. This policy won't eliminate that possibility, but it does mean (for most renewal dates) that there will not be a pro-rated refund in addition to the second Airline Fee reimbursement.
Jun 6, 2016, 6:46 am
#8
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 8,460
Best strategy is to now apply for those cards with the credits in early December. Hit min spend, get credits for 2016, get air credit for 2017 in early Jan, wait till MR post, and then cancel to get AF refunded.
Jun 6, 2016, 7:15 am
#9
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Posts: 3,072
Most normal holders are probably unable to hit min spend so quickly as to be able to take advantage of all the benefits and cancel card in time to get AF refunded. So you're right, they not doing it for the hell of it. But the change certainly won't stop me or other churners like me.
For a one-time $400 score plus MR points, at the risk of being blacklisted from one of the top two card issuers for people who travel. Not a great strategy, really — especially since the banks will see it coming a mile away, after the blogs all beat the idea to death from now until December.
Jun 6, 2016, 7:21 am
#10
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 8,460
Most "normal holders" don't have any intention of canceling a new card after 30 or 60 days, so that class of cardholder is entirely irrelevant to this discussion.
For a one-time $400 score plus MR points, at the risk of being blacklisted from one of the top two card issuers for people who travel. Not a great strategy, really — especially since the banks will see it coming a mile away, after the blogs all beat the idea to death from now until December.
For a one-time $400 score plus MR points, at the risk of being blacklisted from one of the top two card issuers for people who travel. Not a great strategy, really — especially since the banks will see it coming a mile away, after the blogs all beat the idea to death from now until December.
Jun 6, 2016, 7:23 am
#11
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: IAH
Programs: DL DM, Hyatt Ist-iest, Stariott Platinum, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 12,790
For a one-time $400 score plus MR points, at the risk of being blacklisted from one of the top two card issuers for people who travel. Not a great strategy, really — especially since the banks will see it coming a mile away, after the blogs all beat the idea to death from now until December.
Jun 6, 2016, 7:34 am
#12
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,072
I've been doing this for quite some time now, including the points fiasco where AMEX really dropped the ball, and I'm still churning away without a blacklist. Everytime I call they thank me for my loyalty. Just the other day, I was approved for 2 Delta cards with another one pending. AFAICT, this blacklisting thing is a bit of a myth (as it relates to the activities I'm engaged in).
Agree. Plus this completely ignores the fact that for many of us, we decide that some of these cards are worth keeping in spite of the annual fee. For me the Platinum card at a net AF of $250 (minus whatever I'm able to get as a retention bonus) is a workable value for the benefits it offers, which for me is mainly lounge access, especially once the IAH Centurion Lounge opens.
Jun 6, 2016, 9:06 am
#13
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: home = LAX
Posts: 25,933
Yes, anyone who thinks that Amex will gave advance notice of a shutdown only needs to go to the Manufactured Spending forum and read about the tidal wave of Amex Bluebird / Amex Serve shutdowns that came with no warning from Amex.
Jun 6, 2016, 9:12 am
#14
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: London
Programs: BA, VS, HH, IHG, MB, MR
Posts: 26,871
Anyone who understands accounting knows what this is about.
Because fees are refundable, Amex cannot treat them as 'income' immediately. Let's imagine Amex makes $100m in annual fees. At any point, 50% of that is refundable so it has $50m which is not treated as 'income'.
Stopping refunds will lead to a big one-off income spike because the full fee can be taken to revenue after 30 days. As there are no associated costs, all of that extra income will hit the bottom line.
Because fees are refundable, Amex cannot treat them as 'income' immediately. Let's imagine Amex makes $100m in annual fees. At any point, 50% of that is refundable so it has $50m which is not treated as 'income'.
Stopping refunds will lead to a big one-off income spike because the full fee can be taken to revenue after 30 days. As there are no associated costs, all of that extra income will hit the bottom line.
Jun 6, 2016, 9:19 am
#15
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 8,460
Anyone who understands accounting knows what this is about.
Because fees are refundable, Amex cannot treat them as 'income' immediately. Let's imagine Amex makes $100m in annual fees. At any point, 50% of that is refundable so it has $50m which is not treated as 'income'.
Stopping refunds will lead to a big one-off income spike because the full fee can be taken to revenue after 30 days. As there are no associated costs, all of that extra income will hit the bottom line.
Because fees are refundable, Amex cannot treat them as 'income' immediately. Let's imagine Amex makes $100m in annual fees. At any point, 50% of that is refundable so it has $50m which is not treated as 'income'.
Stopping refunds will lead to a big one-off income spike because the full fee can be taken to revenue after 30 days. As there are no associated costs, all of that extra income will hit the bottom line.