bitelion

I have been a Amex card member from the age of 19. I'm 22 now and like many of you, I take my credit seriously and unserstand how Amex differs from other credit card systems here in the UK.

I now have a plat charge and a BA card.

Has anyone noticed how amex UK have basically just being going downhill slowly for sometime now? The service and treatment of customers is just becoming simply poor.

When I first joined amex with a blue card they were bringing down their merchant rates to becoming more accepted around the country. Now i've noticed that many shops that take amex are now beinging to drop it in favour of visa and mastercard, including some of my favorite shops, i.e. Richer Sounds - who's manager in the last store I was in (here in Brighton, home of Amex UK), said they were dropping it very soon after giving out a big sigh when I took it out of my wallet - now in my latest statement they have a special offer at Richer Sounds, even though they intend to get rid of it.

However, other than the decline of acceptance, Amex UK seem to have just become unflexable and seemingly have no idea of the importance of customer loyality anymore.

For instance, when I was offered my plat charge, my letter and info didnt state that the Hilton HHorners card would only be guaranteed for one year. I called to complain, they said that someone would call back, but they never did after a few calls.

Then of course their was the farse over the Virgin Atlantic gold card that gave customers twice as many reward points than plat or cent customers. Once again, I called like many of you did. Once again, I was told that I would get a call back, but I never did of course.

The lastest problem I had was additional cards on my plat account. I've always have my parents on as addtional card holders for they hell of it to get more MRs (used to have the gold credit card)/BA miles. Now that I had the plat card, I thought it only fair for them to get the insurance cover and they would use the cards.

The cards, one plat and one gold, were approved months ago, and I recieved a letter to that affect. I never got the cards and after numerous phone calls, they had made a technical error.

Because of my inconvience, I asked them to make it two plat cards. As far as i'm concerned, its just a colour and costs them nothing. They wouldn't have it.

I'm still waiting for my cards two weeks later.

I, one way or another, have put a lot of business amex's way like I know many of you have. I know when it comes to card renewal next year, I won't continue with american express.

Has anyone else, especially thouse of you who pay for your cards, had a simular feeling lately from amex UK? I know alot of you pay £1000+(?) for centurion cards. I pay £275 for my plat - but even the truly exclusive Visa Infinite (yes, I know its not in the UK yet) is only $300.

Does anyone know if it's worth trying Diners Club here in the UK or just stick with visa/mc?

[This message has been edited by bitelion (edited 08-24-2003).]

[This message has been edited by bitelion (edited 08-24-2003).]

chalf

From the WWW site, DC UK doesn't look too good: only one point per £5 in purchases, and while the rates to redeem points for flights look quite good on an expnditure basis in some cases (eg LON-east coast US), these are non-transferable points. IIRC, points to miles can be done only to a few airlines (AZ and CO come to mind), and 500 points = 1000 miles -- or £2500 --> 1000 miles.

NickW

Firstly, when I got offered the Platinum Card, it wasn't incredibly obvious from the documentation that the HHonors Gold was for a year only, but the words they use did justify that conclusion.

Secondly, I've had no problems at all with getting additional cards on my Centurion account. They've typically turned around additional cards in about two weeks for me, and have followed up to make sure application forms have been received etc.

Thirdly, the Centurion card fee is £650.

I've had generally fantastic customer service from American Express: the only exception I can think of was the ill-fated Double-Click promotion where I had really to chase Membership Rewards to get the points I deserved.

On the plus side, they've couriered replacement cards out to me in Italy, as well as being a real boon when making travel arrangements on the go (I have no idea how much I have saved in international calls by having them call me back or reverse charges calls).

So, no complaints here. Certainly, the customer service I get from Amex is immeasurably superior to most of what passes for 'customer service' these days.

RichardMannion

Not sure how to say this, but the level of service that used to Platinum is now Centurion. Platinum became Centurion overnight, taking all its top customers andtop employees with it. Remember over a decade ago when the Premier league was created, and those in the second division were now in the first division - its similar to that. AmEx Platinum is just another platinum card now - sure you get some fancy travel benefits that other cards don't give you - Travel Insurance regardless of if you pay on the card or not for starters.

I've noticed that the number of places taking the card has gone up, but then I tend to stick to the big high street stores and well known hotels and airlines. Yes their merchant fees are higher, but then that is down to AmEx to deal with.

The clause on the Hilton HHonors card has been there since I can remember, I had a UK Platinum from April 2000 until October 2001. And yes, during that 18 month period, complaining didn't really get me anywhere fast - I ended up speaking to the AmEx Executive office and giving them examples of how poor Platinum was and had them look at my average monthly spend - I had my annual fee refunded. A few months later, I got a phone call about a Centurion invite.

The Virgin Atlantic promotion was an absolute nightmare for all, basically marketing did this tie-up with VS, but didn't take into consideration their existing customer base. I know even as a Centurion cardholder, I had to make it palin and simple to them - after a couple of weeks of discussions, the situation was resolved. Again, the Doubleclick promo turned into a nightmare for many cardholders, there is a long thread in this forum about it. Fortunately as a Centurion Cardholder, I tend to find that thigns get done - I know that doesn't help you straight out, but if I were you start screaming - threaten to cancel your card and tell them exactly why - you should be put thru to the Retention team that are authorised to do things (well most except give you an invite to Centurion ).

This is bizarre, Platinum and Gold cards are issued and embossed onsite in Brighton, they can be processed very quickly.

Unfortunately its not just a colour, if they issue a Platinum coloured card that is valid, that person can go and use the various airline lounges (not priority pass), and the EuroStar lounge. AmEx is charged each time a card is used. If you look in the back of your travel pack carefully, you will see there is a clause that limits lounge access only to the basic (main) cardholder, and the primary supplementary (the other platinum coloured card). May seem harsh, but can you imagine, can I ahve my card issued in Black? Its only a colour! Can I have my green issued in Platinum? Notice how quickly the lounges would fill - exactly the reason why Platinum can no longer be used to get into VS Clubhouses.

Centurion in the UK is £650 - and my views on why it is well worth it is are well known on this board.

If I was starting again - would I pay for Platinum? Yes I would, I travel regularly, the insurance cover for me and my family would easily justify the fee, the one priority pass now worth $399 alone. But then I would pass on the customer service options. Such a shame because Platinum used to be really good but now those days are long gone.

What I would say is sit down, and weigh up what you get and what it would cost you elsewhwere - just remember to rate the value of the customer service at £0.

Depends on your lifestyle, how much you travel, how much you like collecting points etc.

I wouldn't say that the VISA Infinite is truly exclusive, a card that costs $300 is not going to match a card that costs more.

I know much of this may seem harsh, but its not intended to be. Let me know if you have any more questions.

Thanks,
Richard

UKTony

"But then I would pass on the customer service options."

Good advice .. Touch one to hear your balance, touch two to spend more money with us otherwise hold for no assistance pretty much sums AmexUK service offering.

At 360GBP the full Platinum offering (with the extra insurance and CDW cover for USA) is looking less competitive than a roll your own package of lounge/insurance benefits.

The thing is Amex need to watch out cause plenty of us have loads of other credit cards care of the current desperate numbers game being played in the UK.

Already Hilton has moved me to Visa care of x2 promo and a affinity card .. it's not my money so the points matter more than the colour of the plastic.

RBS/Egg/others offer cash back and whilst not yet competitive to the BA/Amex it's probably only a matter of time before something beats the mileage earning potential of this card (in fact Tescos already do - 3200 miles per £1000 spend against BA/Amex 1500 miles) and now the attitude is make the 15K spend and switch away to another card cause BA Miles are not worth as much.

Of course when Amex do try and attact people to use the Plat card (the recent online promo) what happens .. they screw up.

Makes the 'Member since 86' emboss on my card more like 'Mugged since 86'. Taking the Plat card out you feel the person taking it mentally say "........ who costs me more money" rather than "spender" these days.

virtualtroy

I concur with many of the points raised by bitelion, though I think Richard's correct in his assertion that AmEx's top tier staff and customers have all been migrated across to Centurion.

Sadly the tales of shoddy customer service, promised call backs which fail to materialise and, on occasion, downright arrogance from AmEx staff in the UK are all too familiar.

In recent months I've encountered call centre agents who've told me how much they hate their job and what poor working conditions they have to put up with... Aside from making me form a low opinion of Amex management relations with its workforce [possibly the same management school as BA?!?], it's not really something I want to be confronted with when all I've rung up to do is have a simple question answered.

I think the bigger question is what Amex UK is doing about this: one manager at the company recently told me that they were aware of 'issues' with the frontline team. For a card which offers a dwindling pool of benefits, for a not insubstantial annual fee and intensifying competition from the black cards from other financial institutions, the company would do well do think about how it can do more to differentiate itself beyond poor customer service.

Just my view, would be interested in hearing from other UK customers.

dnw

OMG you really summed it up there...!

NickW

I think that's a really odd position. I'm more inclined to shop at places I can pay with my AmEx, simply because I like to accumulate MRs.

Do you think, given the choice, stores would rather a) not have my business at all or b) incur a slightly higher discount rate on my purchase?

By the same measure, would you think that store owners think 'oh my God, another ........ costing me money' when you pay on a Visa credit card as opposed to using a debit card? Or, as usual, is the ire reserved for American Express?

LondonElite

Really? I thought you had to charge it to the card...


[This message has been edited by LondonElite (edited 08-25-2003).]

Internaut

Sounds to me like an issue of uncertainty rather than basic quality of job. Perhaps a large scale movement of job from the UK to India is on the cards.

Personally, I don't call customer services that often and when I do, I've not had a problem. In terms of additional cards, I requested two which took approx' 1 month to arrive. This was fine by me.

[This message has been edited by Internaut (edited 08-25-2003).]

Roger

No, and they even offer an excess waiver - for a small fee, the excess on a claim is reduced to £0. I have been (un)lucky enough to benefit from this twice.

LondonElite

Booked a flight through Amex PCS today (first time and they had the best price!)

Spoke to Insurance and they said that the travel insurance applied (ie sports cover, repatriation, doctors, etc etc) no matter what card was being charged but that the inconvenience package (money for delayed/lost luggage, delayed flights, etc) applied on ly when the charge was made on the Platinum Card.

That's what I thought.

Leumas

I think you just answered your own question.

Most Amex holders will have another credit card (or 3), plus a debit card. When you pull out your Amex to pay, the shop knows you're choosing to use it for other reasons, e.g., MRs, company expenses, etc. So yes, they want the sale, but they also want their margin maximised.

Therefore, you always get the best price when shopping with cash, especially with large items.

Of course, the large (chain) stores wouldn't care less, but to smaller retailers, the 2 - 3% difference (or whatever it is) matters a lot.

On more than one occasion, I want to cancel my UK Amex - the service is one of the worst I've ever experienced with a finanical company. The only reason I still have it is because of its transfer to Starwood and forunately for me, most places I buy accept it. If Amex UK offer the Starwood Amex that the US have, then I'm more than happy to ignore the service or there lackof.

NickW

This certainly isn't true any more - cash handling fees being what they are. I was speaking to the manager of a camera store a few days ago, and he said that the flat-fee that most merchants charge for debit cards these days is less than it costs for him to handle cash.

But it matters significantly less than making a sale vs. not making a sale. Neither of the parties to these transactions are charities, and I don't feel in the slightest bit guilty about squeezing the margins of a smaller company that might otherwise not be getting my business at all.

Kovich

I think Richard's response was quite comprehensive. I have only been a serious user of Amex since early 98 (serious in terms of loyalty if not spend) and so find it difficult to put ups and downs in client service into perspective.

However, I make some comments.

I do wonder if basic service levels have dipped in the last year. I was recently surprised by the speed of response to an incorrect charge of £2,500 (small fry I know for some but big big fry for me!).

Some elements of the service remain outstanding, namely the willingness to deal with incorrect charges themselelves and card replacement.

I think the big increase we saw in the past years of business taking Amex has slowed down. Mostly the improvements seem to be micro billing, for instance Bristol City Council now take the card in their car parks.

I do see more and more reluctance among small retailers to take the card. My only complaint here is that if they don't like it why do they sign up for teh service? I don't mind them not liking it: it's a free country but it just seems strange to put an Amex sticker in the window and then not want to take the card. Strange because how many people are enticed into a store because of the cards it takes?

I would love to know what the strategy is for Platinum and Gold. If Centurion is the strategy to deal with the me too platinums of this world I don't see how there are enough people out there with the lifestyle that makes Amex Platinum a good idea but not Centurion. As for Gold, what on earth is this for? What sort of lifestyle makes Gold a good idea?

If I were Amex I would ditch Gold and Platinum as cards you could apply for in their own right and keep them only for corporate cards (to allow companies to differentiate between classes of employees). I would also keep Platinum as an option for the supplementary cards for Centurions. This would allow me to build a retail strategy around Centurion as a super premium product and Green as funky alternative (in terms of marketing and unusual, genuinely valuable benefits) to me too platinums with their highly limited extra benefits. I could then manage my front line customer services better and give greater consistency of service delivery between what would effectively be two retail product lines. For instance there is no doubt that if an organisation is promising to return calls to customers and then failing to do so it has serious control problems that probably need to be addressed by better processes and reduced complexity for customer facing staff