orbitmic

I also think expecting AA to fly a lot to OW hubs misunderstands how airlines in an alliance (or a JV) "share" network. Typically, each airline will open routes from its own hubs to numerous other destinations, and partner airlines will add their code to that. So BA will open routes from LHR to various US destinations (be they AA hubs or not) and AA will open routes from PHL or DFW to European destinations be they partner OW hubs or not. There is of course a place for hub to hub routes, but many of them are already in place and quite frankly, it makes a lot more sense for AA to add more desirable new destinations in Europe it can now offer as one stop from much of the US, than open, say, routes to HEL which is not necessarily hugely demanded from the US so that it could serve more routes as two stops through its own hubs plus the relatively limited AY hub.

The competitive situation is fairly simple here. Let's say that there is a lot of demand form the US to NCE. At the moment, DL and UA can offer NCE as one stop from much of its domestic network, but AA only as two stops, except from its hubs (or as codeshares from other BA gateways). Adding a link to HEL would not change that situation and DL and UA would continue to have a competitive advantage over AA on that particular market. By contrast, the new route they are opening evens the field by enabling AA to offer NCE as one stop from any domestic airport AA flies to from PHL. When it comes to passengers' appetite, there is a very big difference between one stop and two stops.

SNA_Flyer

Of course there is nothing for us on the West Coast of benefit.

UA has a lot more nonstop Europe (and more!) out of SFO. AA has totally given up on everything here, except 15 nonstops a day LAX-LHR. (Sarcasm, I know).

MarkOK

Personally, DFW-BCN is good win for me. BCN is a very popular destination for our study abroad programs and the dozen or so university towns (like mine) that connect just (or primarily) to DFW will swing a lot of scummy back of the plane traffic around spring break and May-June. I t think last year we had three programs go to BCN (20-30 students per group), and a couple more that tried but didn't' get enough enrollment to make.

And the other adds are nice. Connecting to PHL domestically from around here is still tough (though, easier than JFK by some measure). If I have to do two connections, much rather do them on this side of the pond. Still wish there was something to BER -- its such a nice place to land, rest, and then take advantage of the rail network from there (as a leisure traveler). Ah well, maybe in the future.

As for the JFK argument, I don't blame AA for skipping it over. It's such a heavily served market to Europe, fares are cheap, and O/D competition is stiff. I've nested roundtrip flights before through NYC to take advantage of $400 ex-JFK TATL fares in June before, because it was half the price as flying on a single itinerary though DFW. (i gave a day or two in between on both ends of the trip in case of IRROPs). And whenever I take a gander at JFK-LHR flights I always find it so shocking how many seats are left in the back of the plane at T-24 hours -- because I never get on anything but a near full TATL flight from DFW or CLT. It's possible to be the biggest and most premium heavy market in the country and still be overserved.
Edit to add: Scummy is a joke, and coach tickets from here to Europe though DFW are always about $1600+.

Herb687

Makes sense. NYC-MIL has actual local business demand.

trvlr70

I think it is interesting and telling that AA.chooses to fly to destinations like Athens and Venice from ORD and PHL rather than the big hubs where there are 2 to 3 times the number of connecting passengers. There must be real value to the O&D passengers and perhaps AA isn’t abandoning the cities.

ashill

Huh? PHL is AA’s big hub to Europe due to its obvious geographic advantage over other AA hubs without strong slot or gate constraints. If DFW were AA’s main hub to Europe, 1/3 of the country by area and well over half the country by population would have to backtrack a long way.

hirohito888

As noted by poster above, what other viable hubs would AA have to do TATL? DFW and MIA would be too much backtracking and JFK doesn't have enough feeder flights. AA is left with ORD and PHL and perhaps CLT. Even DL is looking beyond JFK and have several TATL routes out of BOS.

trvlr70

I guess I’m just surprised CLT isn’t getting these flights.

CLT

ZenFlyer

But everyone hates connecting in CLT , , ,

Antarius

CLT has no space. Pretty sure they're tapped out of widebody gates right now.

That doesn't get into the broader yield issue and lack of O&D traffic.

ashill

CLT, even more than PHL, exists as a hub not because of its O&D traffic but because US/AA have set up a large connecting hub. I think CLT has much lower enplanement costs than PHL (I think PHL is on the low side among major international gateways, but CLT is just about the cheapest major airport in the business, which is probably the single reason for an airline that styled itself LCC to have one of the largest hubs in the US in such a small market), but that matters a lot more for routing passengers from the northeast and Midwest to Florida than it does for much higher fare Europe traffic. And for Europe you only need one or two domestic banks to provide the feed. So for all of these reasons PHL’s geography wins over CLT for transatlantic traffic.



http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=CMH-PHL-CPH;CMH-CLT-CPH

cmtlatitudes

CLT is a hot mess. I'd take connecting through PHL any day.

My only problem with PHL is often I need to fly to/from BUF instead of DCA/IAD/BWI. AA only runs the cattle class ERJ-145s on BUF-PHL non-stop, so I tend to avoid PHL, even being a short flight.

HCruiseMike

Guess PRG isn't going to happen again.

PLeblond

I was in CPH a few weeks ago and was very surprised that from what I saw, no US carrier operated to it. I guess UA is codesharing on the SK flights, but if AC can fill 11 flights a week (summer) I found its odd that the other alliances transited their traffic though LHR/AMS/CDG hubs.

orbitmic

DL fly JFK-CPH (though summer season only). And indeed, SK is taking care of the *A flights to the US with UA code-sharing.